RopeDart- next evolution of the bullwhip

[CosmicKobal]

As the title says, the Ropedart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_dart, would have the same funtionality of the Bullwhip, but with a slower attack speed, a heavier weight, an increased range to 4 or 5, some armor penetration and a possibility of hurting yourself with it if you have a low melee/marksmanship skill.

This weapon would NOT replace the bullwhip, since it wouldn’t stun an enemy. but it WILL allow you to attack targets like firefighter zombies, police zombies, etc.

My next thought is maybe adding a meteor hammer with blunt damage and increased armor penetration, chain whip with 2 range and attack speed of a bullwhip, nun-chucks with 1 range, blunt damage and ability to stun, etc. all of these weapons would be easily made in SHTF. and would possibly hut you with a low weapon skill and marksmanship skill.

What do you guys think?

[kevin.granade]

A rope dart or meteor hammer isn’t going to have significantly more range than a bullwhip, a short check indicates they’re similar in length. Don’t get hung up on scale distances in the game, it should have a range no greater than 3 squares. (that’s with range 1 being adjacent)

I’d very much want something in place to reflect the fact that these things require dedicated practice to be worth a damn in a fight.

There’s no reason to give nunchucks, a three-piece rod or a chain whip any more than normal melee range, or treat them as anything other than a melee weapon, they simply aren’t long enough for that sort of thing.

[CosmicKobal]

oh well, the meteor hammer, chain whip, etc were just afterthoughts. my main idea was the ropedart. even if it only has the same distance as the bullwhip I still like the idea of a bullwhip type weapon that has armor penetration. that would be balanced by not having a stun effect and also possibly causing damage to yourself if you don’t have like 5 melee/marksmanship minimum. I figure you would use the bullwhip against normal Z’s and small animals and the ropedart against armored Z’s/small robots.

[Valpo]

I got nothing against the weapon per say cause diversity isn t a bad thing. However i think that this weapon is rextremely unpractical. It would require lots of skill runs the risk of getting stuck on the enemy while not doing much dmg for a lengthy movement that is required to “fire” the thing-

[CosmicKobal]

I got nothing against the weapon per say cause diversity isn t a bad thing. However i think that this weapon is rextremely unpractical. It would require lots of skill runs the risk of getting stuck on the enemy while not doing much dmg for a lengthy movement that is required to “fire” the thing-

I think that there should be weapons that you can ONLY use if you have enough skill. as far as getting stuck in something, that’s a possibility with lots of melee weapons in DDA if you don’t have the stats or skill to use them effectively. I’m not sure what low damage or lengthy movement you’re talking about. you CAN twirl the thing all over the place and make it into a complicated display, or you can just spin it underhanded and release at the bottom of the swing. I see no reason why a sharpened several pound kunai traveling at at least throwing speeds wouldn’t cause significant damage.

I suppose the ropedart could have its own weapon style though. that might help balance it and make the weapon a more feasible option.

EDIT: if it had its own style, maybe that could be the way to make it into a truly effective weapon? maybe lower the attack speed and increase accuracy if you use the weapon and style at the same time. that way, you can still use it without the style, but it only becomes truly deadly when used with the style.

[Valpo]

You can twirl it arround all you like the motion required to swing it in a way that it does dmg is lengthy. If you do not cautiously set up your attack it will deffinatly twirl arround an enemy or another object in the way . Ofc you can use it. I am just saying its not practical as it does low dmg compared to the time needed to use it while beeing rather hard to handle. Even a proffesional with this weapon would be hard pressed not to thow spears instead in a life threatening situation.

[CosmicKobal]

You can twirl it arround all you like the motion required to swing it in a way that it does dmg is lengthy. If you do not cautiously set up your attack it will deffinatly twirl arround an enemy or another object in the way . Ofc you can use it. I am just saying its not practical as it does low dmg compared to the time needed to use it while beeing rather hard to handle. Even a proffesional with this weapon would be hard pressed not to thow spears instead in a life threatening situation.

I just went out in my yard, tied some metal scrap to some rope, took 2 seconds to spin it 4 times released it and missed my target by a few inches each time 5 out of 5 times. now of course, I have NO training and have never attempted it before and yet I was still only 6" inches off at 10 feet away. I wouldn’t be able to actually WIELD a ropedart the way the guys on youtube do if my life depended on it, but hitting a shambling zombie outside of dangerous melee range with it would certainly be better than nothing…

as far as throwing spears instead, spears are much heavier, require more strength to use and have to be picked back up afterwards. If you miss with the ropedart then just run away a few steps, prepare yourself and try again.

If you had a barbed spike instead of a smooth spike you could use it to stop fleeing NPC’s and force them to fight.

[Valpo]

if you miss with a spear pick up a new one and throw again .
Its higher weight is an important part for its dmg. If your using a light dart you ll not do much. Unless you just want to pen the skin of someone to aply poison. But stinging a z with a light piece of metal won t do much. Either its heavy enough to do dmg and therefor hard to wield. or light and doesn t do much for you.
Perhaps you could use it for hunting smal animals. Or if we get effects for mobs aply poison using this thing.
Got nothing against implementing it just let the stats refflect its properties correctly.

[CosmicKobal]

[quote=“Valpo, post:8, topic:8382”]if you miss with a spear pick up a new one and throw again .
Its higher weight is an important part for its dmg. If your using a light dart you ll not do much. Unless you just want to pen the skin of someone to aply poison. But stinging a z with a light piece of metal won t do much. Either its heavy enough to do dmg and therefor hard to wield. or light and doesn t do much for you.
Perhaps you could use it for hunting smal animals. Or if we get effects for mobs aply poison using this thing.
Got nothing against implementing it just let the stats refflect its properties correctly.[/quote]

The selling point of the Ropedart is that its a semi-ranged item that you don’t have to reload, pick back up or carry multiples of and would use the throwing skill. traditional darts were less than a pound, but if you used a meteor hammer instead of a dart, or just made a heavy dart(like 2 or 3 lb’s) then I don’t see how that wouldn’t cause at least as much damage as a thrown spear.

As far as poison is concerned, I think I would use a blowgun over ANY other weapon to apply poison… maybe caltrops

[Valpo]

Fair enough.

Yeah id use a blowgun too for poison.

[kevin.granade]

There are two modes of attack with a rope dart or similar weapon.
Unskilled users will throw or swing the dart or “meteor”, then reel in the rope to retrieve it after either a hit or a miss. This would translate into a monstrously slow attack, or in other words, a regular speed attack followed by a long retrieval. The benefit though is that you CAN get your projectile back without walking over to it.

Highly skilled users will maintain the momentum of the projectile and be able to make nearly continuous attacks with it, not having to pause to retrieve the projectile unless something goes wrong, like it getting stuck in a target or wrapped around something, which they would also be good at avoiding.

[CosmicKobal]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:11, topic:8382”]There are two modes of attack with a rope dart or similar weapon.
Unskilled users will throw or swing the dart or “meteor”, then reel in the rope to retrieve it after either a hit or a miss. This would translate into a monstrously slow attack, or in other words, a regular speed attack followed by a long retrieval. The benefit though is that you CAN get your projectile back without walking over to it.

Highly skilled users will maintain the momentum of the projectile and be able to make nearly continuous attacks with it, not having to pause to retrieve the projectile unless something goes wrong, like it getting stuck in a target or wrapped around something, which they would also be good at avoiding.[/quote]

Good points… I feel it’s worth noting that I don’t see this weapon being of any use against the plant enemies though(triffids or whatever they’re called)

maybe after ‘firing’ the ropedart, you could choose when to ‘reload/reel in’. in reality, you would basically be running/walking away while dragging the rope dart.

[Valpo]

I think those vine monster have an inate resistance to ranged attacks like skelletons. That should suffice.

[CosmicKobal]

I think those vine monster have an inate resistance to ranged attacks like skelletons. That should suffice.

fair enough

[CosmicKobal]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using the ropedart to stop an escaping NPC and basically reel them back in. It seems like no matter what I’m wearing, what traits I have or what bionics/mutations I have, I can never seem to outrun an NPC. A way to stop them in their tracks would be very useful.

…I suppose being able to fire ranged weapons at specific body parts(legs) would also help to slow an enemy.

[iceball3]

Let’s get talking stats.
One thing i’m thinking: In the instance it tangles around something, make a strength check. If uou succeed, knockdown, if fail, check dexterity to see if you manage to get your weapon back or if it is pulled from your hands.
I honestly feel this should replace the Grab attack in the steel chain, eh. Thoughts?
Granted this would be hard to achieve on a projectile…
We honestly really need to see a visual of how much damage a rope dart or meteor hammer actually does for direct attacks. Not once have i seen it get anywhere near shattering concrete on a precise attack (yet), and that is saying something, considering some people can do the same with their fists. It is very well possible it just isn’t recors phenomena, though.

[kevin.granade]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using the ropedart to stop an escaping NPC and basically reel them back in. It seems like no matter what I’m wearing, what traits I have or what bionics/mutations I have, I can never seem to outrun an NPC. A way to stop them in their tracks would be very useful.

You’re thinking a harpoon, not a rope dart.

[Keyreper]

If Rope Darts are added I recommend that they are safe to use only when the character that is using them has suitable training in an acceptable martial art, or a really high melee skill. Otherwise the person using it would probably stab themselves if they tried to use it correctly or use it improperly, making it near worthless.

[Rivet]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using the ropedart to stop an escaping NPC and basically reel them back in. It seems like no matter what I’m wearing, what traits I have or what bionics/mutations I have, I can never seem to outrun an NPC. A way to stop them in their tracks would be very useful.

Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale;
To the last, I grapple with thee;
From Hell’s heart, I stab at thee;
For hate’s sake, I spit my last breath at thee!
Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool;
And since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned whale;
Thus, I give up the spear!

[Logrin]

Whips are actually supremely effective weapons so long as you know how to use them. You can club people, ensnare their limbs and provided you have enough room to crack it lash muscle right off of the bone. I fully agree that being able to use them effectively isn’t something you can just wing–maybe put the skill in a book that spawns on farms?

As for an upgrade–I’d suggest a straight up great knout instead of a fancy far east analog. Just a huge two handed whip with lots of heads and bits of metal/leather knots/hooks at the end. No need for kung-fu when you can just flay a body down to nothing!

Also, a non-craftable UPS or plutonium powered monowhip a la Johnny Mnemonic. Bonus points if you can only get it by finding/killing a living bio-operator.