Total
Damage 37
Range 31
Dispersion 12
Recoil 25 (after mods, varies)
It seems to me, that using regular rifles is pointless with such stupid dispersion. You can use your hand made pneumatic rifle and save yourself the hassle of ammo crafting as bearing are easy to craft and just a bit more inaccurate. Or, you have to go all the way and use rifle with reloaded ammo like .30-06 or 7.32x51mm which have solid dispersion, but their crafting is even more crazy.
Now, all this is based on my understanding that mods can’t alter ammo dispersion (though extended barrel should do just that, IMO).
I was using the pneumatic bolt thing and was rather satisfied with it (except for the part where its ammo weighted around 6 kg).
When I wanted to switch and looked at the huge pile of ammo and weapons I managed to scavenge, no matter how I looked at it, pneumatic weapons were still the best option, especially when my rifles skill is still at 5 right now.
The stats on the reloaded ammo still need some tweaking. Currently they’re still simplified values from the initial reloading expansion.
As soon as I have an evening free for a big project, I’m going to go over the numbers and adjust them a bit so as to make the reloaded better. It’s still going to be inferior to OEM rounds, but not nearly so crappy as it is now.
Id like to see reloaded ammo put back to the same level as the normal stuff, with the option to hot load stuff etc. for more damage/less dispersion. The idea that reloaded ammo is worse than brought stuff doesnt have much bearing in reality. Make the reloading kit much bigger though, like 20 or 30 volume. From a game sense there also isnt much use in reloaded stuff doing less damage. By the time you have enough gear to think about reloading, you are going to have many guns and a reasonable pile of ammo. Why would you ever bother reloading for less damage when you can just grab another gun instead of going through all the hassle? Before it was changed it made sense for me to pull apart lower grade ammo to make FMJs or whatever, it was something worth doing and made me scavenge for gubbins I wouldnt otherwise bother with. Even if the nerf on reloaded ammo is small, im probably still just going to change guns rather than reloading gimped versions of high powered ammo for my favorite modded rifle. There should be a reward or at least continuation of the status quo for putting the work in to reload a few hundred rounds rather than a downgrade.
Necro - but I believe it makes sense in this case.
I made some balancing changes in reloaded ammo and handcrafted caseless ammo for my current character.
Differences of reloaded vs. factory ammo:
[ul][li]only these parameters can be different: Damage, Armor Penetration, Dispersion and Recoil[/li]
[li]if parameter in question is <= 5, it has same value anyway[/li]
[li]Damage and AP value changes by -1[/li]
[li]Dispersion and Recoil value changes by +1[/li][/ul]
What you could do is have standard reloaded rounds be pretty noticably worse, but allow you to create “Match” reloaded rounds which are as good as (or possibly better than) regular ones. It’d have a much higher skill requirement and more materials requirements. That’s pretty much the route that Fallout: New Vegas’s Gun Runners DLC took, and it worked really well IMO.
I am all for better than factory stuff if you have very high skills and things like experimental mats and / or equipment - from labs perhaps?
But the thing is, reloaded ammo as it was - or I should say as it is, without my tweaked jsons, is so bad that it is not worth the effort. Crafting it in amounts that matter is reliably possible so late in game, that I have hand crafted katana, repurposed APC with every crafting station, reflex recurve bow and loot for years before that. And what is reward for all of this? Shitty ammo that turns sniper rifle into regular rifle and regular rifle into pistol - as accuracy goes.
No exaggeration:
sniper round .30-06 AP has dispersion 1, reloaded has 6
assault rifle round 5.56 NATO has dispersion 5, reloaded 9
pistol round 9mm has dispersion 10, reloaded 15
Currently, early game use of gunpowder weapons is to have shotgun for killing mobs point blank in case of shit happened scenario and that’s it. And if you are planning to use guns only rarely, you don’t need reloaded ammo and you can stick with factory ammo.
Sorry for the rant, but that is my in-game experience. If there is someone other who plays with guns, I’d love if you share you experience with reloaded ammo or gunpowder guns in general.
I am all for better than factory stuff if you have very high skills and things like experimental mats and / or equipment - from labs perhaps?
But the thing is, reloaded ammo as it was - or I should say as it is, without my tweaked jsons, is so bad that it is not worth the effort. Crafting it in amounts that matter is reliably possible so late in game, that I have hand crafted katana, repurposed APC with every crafting station, reflex recurve bow and loot for years before that. And what is reward for all of this? Shitty ammo that turns sniper rifle into regular rifle and regular rifle into pistol - as accuracy goes.
No exaggeration:
sniper round .30-06 AP has dispersion 1, reloaded has 6
assault rifle round 5.56 NATO has dispersion 5, reloaded 9
pistol round 9mm has dispersion 10, reloaded 15
Currently, early game use of gunpowder weapons is to have shotgun for killing mobs point blank in case of shit happened scenario and that’s it. And if you are planning to use guns only rarely, you don’t need reloaded ammo and you can stick with factory ammo.
Sorry for the rant, but that is my in-game experience. If there is someone other who plays with guns, I’d love if you share you experience with reloaded ammo or gunpowder guns in general.[/quote]
Well, since you’re an NPC (congrats on 100th post, here’s your mininuke, don’t eat any lighters), you might ask your colleagues. They’re pretty good at fatally shooting me when I’m testing things, so being able to match firepower either already is (or is gonna be Soon) kinda important, I’d imagine.
[quote=“KA101, post:10, topic:5528”]Well, since you’re an NPC (congrats on 100th post, here’s your mininuke, don’t eat any lighters), you might ask your colleagues. They’re pretty good at fatally shooting me when I’m testing things, so being able to match firepower either already is (or is gonna be Soon) kinda important, I’d imagine.
just FYI, I’m on the tail end of overhauling ranged accuracy, dispersion is soon going to be in MOA instead of quarter-degrees like it is now (just multiply all values by 15), so it will have better ability to differentiate smaller details.
Thanks for looking into this, the adjustment sounds reasonable, but I haven’t had a chance to look at actual values yet. I know it’s a lot of work.
[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:13, topic:5528”]just FYI, I’m on the tail end of overhauling ranged accuracy, dispersion is soon going to be in MOA instead of quarter-degrees like it is now (just multiply all values by 15), so it will have better ability to differentiate smaller details.
Thanks for looking into this, the adjustment sounds reasonable, but I haven’t had a chance to look at actual values yet. I know it’s a lot of work.[/quote]
OK, I’m leaving the PR for a few hours’ notice & comment. Unless someone objects, I plan on merging it around 10 PM US Eastern; it’s 6 PM as I type this.
Thanks, that’s been my pet project for months now, but it progresses very slowly. Should be ready to go in another week or so if I can get some time to focus on it.
Just a quick thought on crafting reloaded ammo. Perhaps it would be possible to have the final quality of the rounds produced be somewhat randomized based on a skill and/or stat roll or check. Meaning that your character could end up making good or bad batches each time they go about it. If it’s based around some sort of check it would ensure poorly skilled survivors more often than not produce worse than market rounds while a better trained character would have the incentive to make their own.
Likewise instead of an all or nothing result with other crafts you could implement better/worse outcomes ((Much like how crafted clothing always fits–when possible–at current)) Low cooking? Prepare for a few morale lowering meals. Low tailoring? You clothing comes out with a few tears. etc etc.
[quote=“Logrin, post:17, topic:5528”]Just a quick thought on crafting reloaded ammo. Perhaps it would be possible to have the final quality of the rounds produced be somewhat randomized based on a skill and/or stat roll or check. Meaning that your character could end up making good or bad batches each time they go about it. If it’s based around some sort of check it would ensure poorly skilled survivors more often than not produce worse than market rounds while a better trained character would have the incentive to make their own.
Likewise instead of an all or nothing result with other crafts you could implement better/worse outcomes ((Much like how crafted clothing always fits–when possible–at current)) Low cooking? Prepare for a few morale lowering meals. Low tailoring? You clothing comes out with a few tears. etc etc.
What do you guys think?[/quote]
Well, it would require crafting overhaul to do that. Both randomization and skill based results. Easiest - and currently possible way is just having another set of high end recipes.