"Psychopath" trait name change

[no_zed_is_safe]

As it stands the name does not reflect what I know of psychopathy (sociopathy, maybe, but that’s a different can of worms) and seems rooted in the unfortunate stigma surrounding psychopathy in most cultures. I like the trait because who wants to be depressed for days because you ran over a little green @, but the name could probably be changed to something more evocative, like:

-“Coldblooded Killer”
-“Heartless”
-“Zero Empathy”

Thoughts?

[Midaychi]

“Sociopath” would be the most technically accurate.

[no_zed_is_safe]

“Sociopath” would be the most technically accurate.

True, but for the roleplaying aspect I think a name that doesn’t explicitly state you have psychosis/sociopathy leaves more freedom. For however much that matters.

[Coolthulhu]

“Jaded”

[Random_dragon]

“Heartless” or “Jaded” sound suitably evocative yet psychologically generic, yeah.

And as an added benefit, it’d put them higher up on the trait list, to snag them quicker. Though having them right next to Night Vision, another of my must-have traits, would be excellent. o3o

[Pthalocy]

Oh shit, I like ‘Jaded’ a lot.

Technical accuracy is great, but for traits that define a character’s personality, some looseness makes roleplay a lot easier. +1 to no_zed_is_safe’s comment.

Also, it makes the trait’s implications mirror what actually happens when you kill enough morale-crushing child zeds: you become jaded and no longer suffer the penalty they incur.

Actually, is the player awarded the ‘Psychopath’ trait after zed-killing, or is the ‘killed 100 kidzeds, don’t care now’ a separate function? Bit off topic, but curious all the same.

[Xfin]

It per monster that gives the guilt effect, more details would be that the effect isn’t really just a"100 = you completely stopped caring" but more you ‘slowly get used to it’ per kill
however Psychopath also blocks morale penalty for other things like making zlaves and killing NPCs

[Random_dragon]

And commit cannibalism.

Just because you can eat raw long pork without a morale penalty, doesn’t mean you SHOULD.

[Xfin]

Has never tried eating humans with just psychopath before so was unsure on that one…

npcs are kinda tasty loot bags however… some even self bbq themselves for you… along with you and whatever building nearby…

[Random_dragon]

Everyone is delicious. o3o

[no_zed_is_safe]

In light of that then I do like “Jaded”. I’m glad with the positive response this has gotten so far.

[Laughing_Fool]

Psychopath seems to be a huge step up from simply being Jaded. You are unable to feel empathy, you can murder that poor schmuck npc who though you were his bff, eat his remains, wear his s̶k̶i̶n̶ clothes, you receive no morale penalty for such betrayal and can be sound asleep 15 minutes after. You care about other people about as much as you care about all this vermin crushed under your customized heavy survivor boots.
Perhaps make Jaded another trait?

[Rivet]

From Wikipedia: Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/), also known as—though sometimes distinguished from—sociopathy (/soʊsiˈɒpəθi/), is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.

From Psychology Today: Psychopathy is among the most difficult disorders to spot. The psychopath can appear normal, even charming. Underneath, they lack conscience and empathy, making them manipulative, volatile and often (but by no means always) criminal.

Italicized emphasis is mine.

DSM V now lists what was formerly known as ‘psychopathy’ under the broad heading of ‘antisocial personality disorder’, which doesn’t really affect our usage of the term; DDA’s usage is somewhat archaic by clinical standards, but the average player understands what the word means and that’s what matters.

[quote=“Xfin, post:7, topic:10642”]It per monster that gives the guilt effect, more details would be that the effect isn’t really just a"100 = you completely stopped caring" but more you ‘slowly get used to it’ per kill
however Psychopath also blocks morale penalty for other things like making zlaves and killing NPCs[/quote]

The guilt penalty drops off gradually, reducing its effect bit by bit until you reach 100 kills.

[John_Candlebury]

I support keeping the name “psychopath” ; for the same reasons as Rivet and Laughing Fool stated above.

[kevin.granade]

As it stands the name does not reflect what I know of psychopathy … and seems rooted in the unfortunate stigma surrounding psychopathy in most cultures.

If you’re going to make that argument, you’re going to have to explain “what you know of psychopathy”. As it is your statement is unassailable, but pointless since we have no idea what your definition of psychopathy is.

The definition Rivet posted is representative of the game’s usage of the term, indicating a lack of empathy for people or people-shaped monsters that renders them immune to guilt caused by causing such beings harm. This is, as has already been pointed out, far beyond simply being habituated to violence.

Just FYI I’m rather cynical about this point, the several times it has come up already, the rationale has been, “I don’t think I’d feel guilty for doing what is necessary to survive, so I take this trait to reflect that, but I don’t like being called a psychopath.”

“Jaded” doesn’t mean remotely the same thing, it is exactly the kind of thing that is represented by reduction of morale penalties for killing enemies whose death normally causes guilt. A nice little feature would be to add a “jaded” trait when you pass some threshold with that system to make what is happening more visible to the player.

[Random_dragon]

Hmm. Any other terms that would get the “lack of empathy” part across more clearly? Though in this case it sounds less like an issue of the connotations of the term psychopath, and more like conflating it with the even stronger connotations of the term psychotic. >.>

[Xfin]

Here don’t think there any “word” that would describe a lack of empathy more clearly

Two other psychical disorders not mentioned in this thread that related would be Narcissistic and Schizoid but i don’t think either would fit any better then Sociopath or ‘jaded’ (i never heard that term before)

[kevin.granade]

Hmm. Any other terms that would get the “lack of empathy” part across more clearly?

There has been no sensible case made for “psycopath” not being a good name for the trait, so discussing alternatives isn’t constructive.

Though in this case it sounds less like an issue of the connotations of the term psychopath, and more like conflating it with the even stronger connotations of the term psychotic. >.>

If you can’t tell two unrelated, but similarly spelled words apart, I can’t help you. Get gud @ reading.

[Random_dragon]

Yes, because griping at me for discussing this totally helps. >.>

[kevin.granade]

Yes, because griping at me for discussing this totally helps. >.>

It does if it redirects the discussion to somewhere productive, like either someone making a case for “psycopath” actually being a problem, or dropping the issue because there is none.