New armor screen & changed encumbrance system

Game Talk The Drawing Board
21

If we’re changing the penalties per point of encumbrance, i’d like to put forward we make those penalties exponential in nature, or have them stack.

Though i can’t produce any numbers, this is the rough sketch i have in my head:
1-2 encumbrance should give a noticeable decrease in the PC’s performance, but not so severe as to limit the player in his actions and choices.
at 3-4 encumbrance it should become noticeable to the player that certain things like running, aiming and crafting etc. become more and more difficult, if not outright impossible. Also i think the player needs to be given feedback about the PC’s encumbrance (“It’s hard to move your X”, etc.).
and 5+ should be right out.

22

Adrian, I like your idea about progressive encumbrance!

Folks, I need your help with names and some universal write-up for each layer.

Flag: “SKINTIGHT”, message: “It lies close to the skin.” (existing flag is presented here as reference);
Flag: N/A (no flag for regular layers), message: "TBD"
Flag: “OUTER”, (“SHELL_LAYER”? “OVER”? “OUTER_GARMENT”?), message: "It is outermost clothing."
Flag: “BELTED”, message: “TBD”

Any ideas about better flag names and descriptions?

Maybe we don’t need this kind of description at all and stuff like “regular layer”, “outer layer” is enough?

23

Let’s please resist the temptation of, "you’re making a small change, why not overhaul the whole thing?"
The layering thing is a small, targeted change that only requires adding flags to items that are being added to the new layer categories. The other stuff being proposed requires rebalancing the values of every single item of clothing in the game, which is specifically what I was trying to avoid with the layering proposal.
We’d need some really massive benefits to justify that kind of code and item churn.

24

Can’t wait for this to be merged in!

25

Kevin, so, “Other” group is the best solution for the moment?

UPD: Initial part of discussed changes is done in PR #7302.

26

Question: should scarves be assigned to the belted layer?

27

Meaning no slot? If no slot, then I maybe guess so…

28

Belted sounds just right for scarves.

29

belted is a distinct layer, what this means is that it only considers other belted items for layering. So for example wearing a belt over your pants doesn’t start stacking encumbrance, which makes sense. But wearing a holster and drop pouches will, because they’re on the same body parts and the same layer.
The game envisions scarves as being worn over the neck and mouth, so I’d say over rather than belted, what they’d tend to interfere with would be e.g. a riot helmet, whereas a surgical mask would be under, and a filter mask would be default.
I’m not sure anything on the head makes sense to be in the belted layer, but I could just be not thinking of something.

30

Great work, looks a lot better.

I’d second a ‘other’ layer, or a ‘accessories’ layer though, as I think it’s kinda important to have some sort of cap on that.

31

I kind of like having a master list so that I can quickly move something like a union suit to the inside of everything in all its slots.

It is useful for much the same reason that a minimap is useful in a strategic wargame. It lets you quickly check something that you are not focused upon. Although, to be honest, I never really use it, the left two columns seem sufficient for all my purposes.

32

RAM, Is ‘toggle the displaying mode’ feature makes it better?

33

Perhaps it should be “<Innermost” and “Outermost>”, with the latter left aligned to the most outer layer… As it is now, it gives wrong first impression of directionality: seemingly the first being the uppermost and the other lowermost, when in reality it is supposed to be a hint about horizontal (not vertical) orientation.

just a thought,
eai

p.s. and how about using a 2-space tab (or a 1-non-blank, like _ or .) to make it more distinct; without the need for this “>>>>” bunch up.

34

Now it makes it seem like the ballistic glasses and bandana are worn in the same layer over the helmet.

It was perfect earlier, IMHO

35

elauminx, actually it’s about both vertical and horizontal directions, so the most informative way to show the idea is presented below but it looks ugly:
< Innermost ^
v Outermost >

I think we need some automatical sorting of worn items because it’s kind of silly to allow the player to wear a t-shirt over a coat, so we should restrain moving an item only in range of the one layer (I’m sorry, Kevin, but I can’t help saying this).

Adrian, earlier means “without any changes” or “sketch in the first post”?

If you’re talking about the first option then I would say that the latest update of items names (“pair of bla-bla-bla” instead of “bla-bla-bla”) decreases readability/usability of current UI (Wuzzy enforces us to adapt the interface for lo-o-ong German names, I know his evil plan!).

If you’re talking about second one then it’s enough to press ‘+’ for switching the displaying mode.

P.S. Yes, I screwed up with the indention of the army helmet in my latest sketch, I’m sorry about that.

36

I meant the sketch in the first post.
It was concise and understandable with a single glance.

37

I’ve been playing with the new layering system and I’m a little worried it’s become a lot easier to have plenty of volume with low encumbrance.

For example, you can have the following worn on your legs with exactly one point of encumbrance:
Underwear(x2)
Army Pants(x2)
Cargo Shorts(x1)
Drop Leg Pouches(x2)

Total of 72 storage, and reasonably well-armored (if you keep the army pants repaired/reinforced), and if you really hate encumbrance then get rid of one pair of the army pants and you’re at 0 encumbrance with still-good 58 storage. In the old system this would put you at 3 or 4 encumbrance.

Anyway, I’m off to find a runner’s pack – should be belted layer with 0 encumbrance for 30 storage.

38

This will almost certainly require rebalancing things yes.

39

we could cut all storage from clothing by half for a quick-and-dirty fix.

40

Adrian, this is too rough, IMO.

We need a convention about the measurement of volume (if we don’t have one yet), so all items can be rebalanced according to that convention.

[SPOILER=list of all items with non-zero storage]
[table]
[tr]
[td]Name[/td]
[td]Storage[/td]
[td]Encumbrance[/td]
[td]Body Part[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]duffel bag[/td]
[td]120[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]power armor hauling frame[/td]
[td]120[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]military rucksack[/td]
[td]80[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]heavy survivor rucksack[/td]
[td]64[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MOLLE pack[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]XL survivor suit[/td]
[td]56[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]light survivor suit[/td]
[td]50[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]survivor suit[/td]
[td]46[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]survivor wetsuit[/td]
[td]46[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]backpack[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather backpack[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]dive bag[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]heavy survivor suit[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]winter survivor suit[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]survivor firesuit[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]survivor pack[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]survivor trenchcoat[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]runner pack[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]briefcase[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]ARMS,HANDS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]makeshift sling[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]light survivor harness[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]trenchcoat[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather trenchcoat[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]fur trenchcoat[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]survivor cargo pants[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]purse[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]messenger bag[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]SWAT armor[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]bindle[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]HANDS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]chest rig[/td]
[td]18[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]pair of drop leg pouches[/td]
[td]18[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]clown suit[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]AEP suit[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]light power armor[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS,HANDS,LEGS,FEET[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]heavy power armor[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS,HANDS,LEGS,FEET[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]army pants[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]army jacket[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]utility vest[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]lab coat[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]cargo pants[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]winter coat[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]tactical dump pouch[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]0[/td]

[/tr]
[tr]
[td]pouch[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather pouch[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]XL jumpsuit[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,ARMS,TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]suit[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MBR vest (empty)[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]peacoat[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]tool belt[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]turnout coat[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]basic power armor[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS,HANDS,LEGS,FEET[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]hoodie[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]cargo shorts[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]jumpsuit[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS,ARMS,TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather body armor[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]tuxedo[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather apron[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]rain coat[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]plated leather armor[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]waistcoat[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]pair of fishing waders[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,LEGS,FEET[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]turnout trousers[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]fanny pack[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]0[/td]

[/tr]
[tr]
[td]housecoat[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS,LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]chefs jacket[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]shorts[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]mail carrier shorts[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]denim shorts[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]pants[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ski pants[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]fur pants[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]subject suit[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,ARMS,TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]wolf suit[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS,HANDS,HEAD,FEET,MOUTH,EYES[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]dinosaur suit[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS,HANDS,HEAD,FEET,MOUTH,EYES[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]wetsuit[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]spring suit[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]boiled leather armor[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]fur body armor[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]mail carrier shirt[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]light jacket[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]flannel jacket[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather jacket[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MBR vest (superalloy)[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MBR vest (steel plating)[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MBR vest (ceramic plates)[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MBR vest (kevlar plates)[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]MBR vest (hard plates)[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]fur coat[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather vest[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]firefighter belt[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]

[/tr]
[tr]
[td]helmet netting[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]HEAD[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]jean jacket[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]checkered pants[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]jeans[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather pants[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]French maid clothes[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS,LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]sheriff’s shirt[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]blazer[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather belt[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]0[/td]

[/tr]
[tr]
[td]striped pants[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]skirt[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]LEGS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]leather touring suit[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]LEGS,TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]dress shirt[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]TORSO,ARMS[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
[/SPOILER]