Without having a medical or autodoc profession what would be the amount of skill required to give at least a 50% to remove a bionic?
Is it harder to remove a bionic than uninstall it? I know different bionics require higher skill levels with batteries being the easiest and brain surgery the hardest, but what would be the recommended bare minimum in electronics, mechanics and first aid?
What do you mean by that? Isnât that the same?
This depends heavily on the bionic you try to remove; as you state, there are different difficulty levels for different bionics.
To my knowledge, it uses the same formula as for the installation (you can find it on the wiki) - or at least it used to.
Using that formula, you can calculate the necessary skills for the uninstallation of a given bionic.
Thereâs an older post of mine about the calculation on the different failure levels⌠Itâs possible that things have changed by now, but assuming they didnât, you want to stay below 29% âFAILURE CHANCEâ, so you only take minimal damage if you fail to uninstall it.
but what would be the recommended bare minimum in electronics, mechanics and first aid?
As far as I know itâs always been just Intelligence, First Aid / Health Care and computers, and I believe Electronics too? Not sure about the latter, as things seem to be stealth-buffed/stealth-nerfed all the time with no change-logs provided.
A bit of an off-topic but also related.
itâs possible that things have changed by now, but assuming they didnât, you want to stay below 29% âFAILURE CHANCEâ, so you only take minimal damage if you fail to uninstall it.
This is why I strongly believe we need an actual written document for every build anytime changes are made, instead of the âwitty namesâ for the changes in the updates and a link to the code - that not everyone can read or will understand. A lot of things are changed but those who arenât as IT literate as the devs or contributers will just stare at the stuff and be like â⌠okay.â
If this became a more regular thing, it would also be quite easy to keep the wiki updated with actual information about the new things - proficiencies, for example.
EDIT: had an answer merged into a quote. Oops
the âwitty namesâ would be whoever puts in the push requestâs fault, and a majority of people make it exactly the problem thatâs being addressed, and it doesnât just link to the code, it links directly to the push request, which details the problem and the intended solution in plain text.
the problem comes in that you arent always checking every single little change to the game, and therefore something may have changed when you didnt notice⌠but if it did change, then you can be sure there were at least 5-10 people arguing about the best way to implement it so that it wouldnt upset people who werent paying attention.
on topic: the skill to remove a bionic should be exactly the same as it took to install that bionic, the only difference being when its a damaged bionic with a random effect⌠i believe ALL of those have relatively the same chance of removal.
Thereâs only one thing wrong with thatâŚ: The game calculates stuff based on different formulas.
The âstay below 29%â you see there? Thatâs not just a definition in some âcodeâ file that someone put there and Iâve found and posted here. Itâs a complex formula and I had to calculate this value. Itâs actually not a round value either, itâs 29.012345% for example (I donât remember the exact value) which Iâve rounded down for convenience.
So, if done as youâve suggested, it might say in the changelog âIâve changed the formula so it also takes half of the dexterity stat into accountâ, but it still means that someone has to recalculate the whole thing.
Thatâs also why Iâm stating thatâs possible things has changed. Not because Iâm too lazy and/or donât know where to look for that value, itâs more that I donât want to recalculate and/or invest the time to go through the changelogs to make sure it is still the same formula.
Even with âclear namesâ/documents, Iâd still have to search through a year and a half worth of changes.
Also please keep in mind; experimenting with stuff, to try new things and experience it personally is part of the game design, so having documented everything can get boring really quickly for new (as well as experienced) players.
Not sure what or who youâre citing here⌠Or if you ask this as an actual question. See edit down below.
If itâs the latter: The bare minimum would be 0 in all these skills.
With only 1 intelligence, youâd have a failure chance of 97% to install the simplest of all CBMs (and 100% failure chance on everything else), but thatâs still 3% success if you want to take that risk.
Again, thereâs nothing really to recommend, because every bionic has its own difficulty. âThe higher the betterâ and âtake the risk you think is acceptableâ are really the only things I can recommend, unless you ask me about a specific percentage for a specific CBM and a given intelligence and access to skill books (or other training).
Edit: Ah, I see, youâve merged your answer with the question.
Yes, the wikiâs still accurate on that. It takes into account Intelligence, First Aid, Computers and Electronics (unless you install it without an autodoc (using the manual installation mod), in which case it would be Intelligence, Electronics, First Aid and Mechanics).
My statement still stays as written: You donât need any skill - if you want to take the risk or if you have a high enough intelligence.
Since the different skills are of different importance, youâd get the same result if you have a given intelligence and (assuming an auto doc installation) either 1 First Aid and 0 in all other skills, or 4 levels in Electronics and 0 in the others. Or you could go with 0 First Aid, 1 Computer and 1 Electronics. All these would/should still result in the same % chance.
Other things to note (taken from the code):
If malfunctioning bionics doesnât have associated item it gets a difficulty of 12.
Removal of bionics adds +2 difficulty over installation (meaning that if the sentence above is true, it is actually a difficulty of 14).
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Iâm having a bit of a problem understanding what you mean in your on topic answer.
If it was meant to mean that all the broken bionics broken cyborgs are plagued with have the same removal requirements, that wasnât the case in 0.E2 stable. Just as with installation of normal bionics the removal of those differed in difficulty (with the worst ones being (among) the hardest to remove).
i mean, yes, the âworseâ the broken bionic the harder it would be to remove, iâd assume, but any bionic can break into any broken bionic, so it doesnt carry its difficulty over
i.e. if you attempted to install an easy bionic (say, power system) and for whatever reason it failed and broke, it could become something difficult to remove (say, acid discharge)
but on the same scale, a higher difficulty bionic could break down into a much easier to remove broken bionic. or if youâre trying to remove a high end bionic and fail, it could break down into an easier to remove broken bionic (though one would assume youâd want to keep the bionics, even if you want to remove them)
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I meant just a simple 4 or 5 electronics, first aid 2, etc. etc. instead of complicated formulas
basically just a rough estimate for what to do for bare minimum requirements of removing faulty bionics
Not sure why you responded to me, as I didnât say anything on that subject (because I donât know the details)âŚ
Anyway, the answer is basically to bring all the relevant skills up as high as you can, given the books etc. available to you, given the time you have to train, and weigh it against the risks.
If I look at Valaseâs answer, I get the message that you should try to increase skills in this order:
- First Aid (weight 4)
- Computer (weight 3)
- Electronics (weight 1)
I believe there are drugs that improve INT temporarily, but there itâs the case that youâd use the best you have available at the time youâre making the attempt.
If youâve got the time, check your success chances for the bionic you want to (un)install until the success rate is at least 71% (i.e. a failure rate of at most 29%) from time to time.
If you havenât got the time, determine whether to bet everything on one attempt, or if you should try to give it time for several (and hope youâre not getting a catastrophic failure on any of them), and thus start earlier.
I believe it is actually two difficulty levels higher to remove, but I am too lazy to confirm.
Yes;
However, the question was:
Is it harder to remove a bionic than uninstall it?
âRemovingâ and âuninstallingâ is the same, isnât it? Unless that has changed and thereâs now a way to just tear it out (as it was once suggested that there should be a way to do that with the manual installation mod in the future), hence me asking what s-/he meant with that, without a clear answer yetâŚ
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in this context yes, removing is the same
so yeah, uninstalling bionics takes (2 extra) more skill than installing the bionic, you dont need EXACT stats to install/remove but first aid, computer and electronics are what affect the chances of success.
catastrophic failure leads to leaving you near dead, so having at least 71% chance of removal is probably the best idea, as it leaves a window in which youâll at worst hurt yourself a bit, but if youâre feelin risky you could probably do it around 50% on lower stats.
⌠heck if you wanna go real crazy go find a malfunctioning nurse bot near an autodoc and it will rip out a random bionic at 100% success rate
Well, that is my penance for skimming.
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