Temperature effects borked

qurvax · 2014-07-20T18:41:26.000Z

Maybe it’s related to beating my char took on his head.

kevin.granade · 2014-07-20T19:01:54.000Z

en.wikipedia.org

Hypothermia

Hypothermia is reduced body temperature that happens when a body dissipates more heat than it absorbs. In humans, it is defined as a body core temperature below 35.0 °C (95.0 °F). Symptoms depend on the temperature. In mild hypothermia there is shivering and mental confusion. In moderate hypothermia shivering stops and confusion increases. In severe hypothermia, there may be paradoxical undressing, in which a person removes his or her clothing, as well as an increased risk of the hear Hypothermia...

Working as intended, you’re entering a dangerous level of hypothermia and are becoming delirious, good luck.

qurvax · 2014-07-20T19:21:22.000Z

From the exposure to -10C at night? Way to harsh. I had a balaclava on if that matters. What the players are supposed to do then, wear a full fur set at the end of day1 or what? Also, why it’s still showing blue ‘40’ when temperature rises above +4? This really doesn’t seem like “expected”.

EDIT:
Had loaded up that save once more. Waited to +10, and all of a sudden “40” became green “27”. Taken off my balaclava - 10, BLUE. +12C!
I don’t quite understand what’s going on with the numbers now.

KA101 · 2014-07-21T01:44:28.000Z

[quote=“qurvax, post:3, topic:6841”]From the exposure to -10C at night? Way to harsh. I had a balaclava on if that matters. What the players are supposed to do then, wear a full fur set at the end of day1 or what? Also, why it’s still showing blue ‘40’ when temperature rises above +4? This really doesn’t seem like “expected”.

EDIT:
Had loaded up that save once more. Waited to +10, and all of a sudden “40” became green “27”. Taken off my balaclava - 10, BLUE. +12C!
I don’t quite understand what’s going on with the numbers now.[/quote]

To be fair, game start is much colder now than it used to be. I’m in favor of upgrading most “regular folks” starting gear to take that into account (long-sleeve shirts, etc).

qurvax · 2014-07-21T05:14:20.000Z

To make it clear - In this thread I’m not complaining about how cold game start is. I’m complaining about warmth numbers showing inconsistent data and effects that seems illogical. Like [hot head!] with [chilly head] at the same time.

KA101 · 2014-07-21T06:46:23.000Z

qurvax:

To make it clear - In this thread I’m not complaining about how cold game start is. I’m complaining about warmth numbers showing inconsistent data and effects that seems illogical. Like [hot head!] with [chilly head] at the same time.

Kevin already ruled that there’s a certain amount of Interface Screw there, as it’s realistic for hypothermia. Mine is in response to your complaint about needing a full fur set: you’re right, sending people into subzero in jeans and a T-shirt is a recipe for failure, and I’m willing to buff the player accordingly.

Weird numbers are an issue, and if you’re able to be on the IRC at some point between ~5 PM through 10 PM US Eastern, Efimero the weather-guy tends to be on at those times. He’s interested in getting a working weather model, so Weird Numbers are things he should know about.

(Shoes should probably get involved too, as he’s the one who did bodytemps.)

Efimero · 2014-07-21T07:11:34.000Z

I haven’t looked at how the bodytemp stuff works, but what I’ve gathered from playing is this:

The warmth number (the one in the coloured parentheses) is the sume of the warmth of every clothing you’re wearing covering that body part. That means no matter how many blankets you wear, your head and face will stay at zero without a hat and a scarf.
The colour of the number is dependent both on the current temperature and the warmth number. That means having a certain colour at one point does not ensure seeing the same colour if the ambient temperature changes.
The colours represent the expected body temperature. A warmth of 0 will always be blue meaning it will be too cold for survival. Then, depending on the warmth and temperature, bluer means too cold and redder too hot, with green being an expectancy of comfortable.
If you’re over freezing temperatures, you won’t drop to dangerous levels, so you don’t have to worry about the colours anyway.
If you’re in the cold, you will see the blue body parts get cold faster, and also you will see that the warmth number required to get to green is higher.
If you’re in the heat, you will see the yellow and red body parts get hot faster and the warmth number required to get to green is much lower, mayb even needing a 0 (maybe?).

So after reading your comment, I can only assume that it’s just a misinterpretation of what things mean. However, I’m not an authority on this system and I’m not 100% certain this is how it works. It’s true that the current game start is a bit too harsh, but I believe it’s survivable, though it may be a steeper learning curve than before. It is for you to judge if that’s a good or a bad thing. That’s up for debate. Most RL don’t even give you a learning curve and just kill you right off the start if you don’t already know how to play them.

Hopefully with what I’ve said you’ll be able to figure out how to better survive the cold. Good luck, survivor. =3

qurvax · 2014-07-21T09:43:11.000Z

I play cata for a long time now, and i’m ok with cold starts.

[quote=“Efimero, post:7, topic:6841”]I haven’t looked at how the bodytemp stuff works, but what I’ve gathered from playing is this:
…[/quote]
My understanding on the warmth numbers is the same. It’s worked in this way, or very similar one, until recently. And this is the reason i started this tread.

Lets try to clarify what looks to me like wrong numbers.
First, and most obvious one is hot and cold body part effect at the same time. This is confusing, and cannot be explained by a common sense.
Second is warmth number on body part changing by itself. One would expect that not changing his clothing configuration in any way will keep it constant. Under the system outlined by Efimero that would be the case, right?
Third is debatable to some extents, and is more of a balance issue than game mechanic: my char had slept inside a building, using a bed and a blanket, with most of the clothing appropriate for the weather. I’m sure temperature didn’t go below -10C. The result is - chilly hands, chilly legs, but !frostbite! on the !face!. And now i am told it’s hypothermia! Is this seems reasonable to everyone except me? If so, i’ll drop my complaints.

To summarize: I suggest taking a look at how warmth values are calculated.

P.S> To Kevin: He survived. Not sure what to expect from hypothermia, but there were only 40 pain from frostbite and nothing else.

P.S.S> Even more strange things. Last windows SDL build, -2C, 2 T-shirts, jeans, sneakers. Standing in the sunny weather. T-Shirts must be perfectly-black or something…

2q1hyx5.jpg1152×648

Efimero · 2014-07-21T13:49:15.000Z

I’m not saying this is how it should work, but this is how it is:
While you’re sleeping, your body temperature drops. This means it’s easier to get frostbitten while sleeping. I don’t know how fair, reasonable or realistic this is, but that’s how it currently works.
On the other hand, while you’re under sunlight in sunny weather, your body temperature is higher than the ambient temperature.

As I’ve said, I haven’t looked at the code, so the calculation could possibly maybe be off? but if they are, you’re the first to notice, so please provide more specific proof with proper data or look at the code yourself.
Otherwise, this will be low-priority in my list, though someone else might grab it. =3

qurvax · 2014-07-21T14:08:03.000Z

What else proof that they are off do you need? I don’t remember running around with t-shirt or two around late fall and seeing green. As it is not a game breaking issue, i wont waste any more of your time.

CIB · 2014-07-21T14:47:03.000Z

The way body temperature works is actually pretty complex. We’d need some actual research into it, and some well documented calculations.

Shoes · 2014-07-21T15:07:22.000Z

Hey guys :3 I will try to make myself available on irc tonight to answer questions or stuff up. I’ve been waiting a long time for someone brave enough to redo the weather system. The new system Might start exposing bugs that were previously well hidden

ramesesniblet · 2014-07-22T08:26:43.000Z

Blankets definitely need to cover every body part with the new cold start. Even smashing up the shelter to craft a couple of blankets and a bunch of warm clothes still has your guy waking up to a cold head because you can’t cover it adequately.

Shoes · 2014-07-22T12:38:57.000Z

If oversized flags are still a thing, then the blanket can be given that flag and cover all body parts. Oddly enough, in regards to sleeping, leaving the blanket on the ground instead of wearing it would provide warmth too all bodyparts.

qurvax · 2014-07-23T20:20:31.000Z

Someone must have done something. As of 8eb7544 im running now everything seems perfectly reasonable. Also weather as a whole feels more smoth. And that starting jacket is really nice bit.
I wonder why i can’t find any trace of the changes on github…

KA101 · 2014-07-23T21:54:14.000Z

[quote=“qurvax, post:15, topic:6841”]Someone must have done something. As of 8eb7544 im running now everything seems perfectly reasonable. Also weather as a whole feels more smoth. And that starting jacket is really nice bit.
I wonder why i can’t find any trace of the changes on github…[/quote]

For the jacket bit, because I borked the merge and as such the records are messed up. But the socks and jacket made it through, so be happy. :-/

Efimero · 2014-07-23T23:57:55.000Z

I don’t believe in magic, but I believe in missing an update. Anyway, if this is still an issue, let me know. It should be easy to fix, if it’s there.

qurvax · 2014-07-24T05:05:10.000Z

Thanx guys!

KA101:

so be happy. :-/

I am!