Temperature effects are way to ridiculous

Game Talk The Bunker
161

If you’re getting frostbite at 40F, you are playing an outdated version of the game. Frostbite is hardcoded not to happen before 32F. Look for a scarf to help you with mouth warmth, or a bandanna. Also, if you are playing an outdated version of the game, you will run into more temperature bugs, such as frostbite at 40F and the inability to warm up properly.

[quote=“Labtop_215, post:159, topic:304”]A) The furred and lightly furred traits do not add any warmth to your body at all. (Defiantly been said before)
B) You can’t put any clothing on talons and hoofs. (Defiantly been said before)
C) Fire dosn’t keep you warm enough during the winter months, even if your beside it with it in a brazier or wood stove. (Don’t know if it’s been said before)

Basically I’ve reached winter and it’s regularly -10°C or so. I can’t wear gloves or socks, but on the parts of my body I can wear items, they are warm. But now I have to deal with constant spam about how frostbite has frozen my hands and feet off, but they never actually even fall off. So this is annoying, basically either they should rot away or stop spamming my screen with messages about them freezing solid and feeling numb. It’s annoying.

It’s like the game is expecting me to like care or something about my virtual hands and feet falling off or whatever but it never actually goes through with anything so I coudln’t care less. I just want the spam to stop.[/quote]

Spam is an issue that I want to fix; I ballparked the amount of warning messages and need to revisit that.

A: I didn’t now there were fur mutations? That would definitely add warmth.

B: Yup, have to add a little clause to skip bodytemp on those bodyparts until I have a better solution

C: Fire has been a balance issue for a while now. What was the intensity of the fire you were working with? A “small” fire is not meant to keep warm.

Frostbite will cause hp loss and eventually limb loss, but once I know the system won’t screw over players ;p I have been low on time recently, so not much has been done on the coding front. Hopefully I can get some changes in before 0.5.

162

Re fur mutations: There are, and they claim to protect against cold. This mutation-liking player thinks you had best get on that, Shoes.

http://www.wiki.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?title=Mutation#Lightly_Furred (Furry is the next one down.)

Re fire: Well, last I heard a Fire or Raging Fire caused permanent maxHP loss if you stood next to it, (and they spread, too) so they aren’t meant to “keep warm” either. If the Small Fire doesn’t increase temperature, I’m at a loss to figure out what would.

163

I was told by other devs that an intenstiy 1 “small fire” was akin to burning a piece of paper. There are four intensities, and the have x1, x4, x8, x16 heating effectiveness. I think the problem lies in that fire is hard to control, because really, other than warmth, its only use is destruction.

KA101 : do you regain your lost max hp after you recover from blisters? You said permanent, so probably not. Is that too harsh? I sort of threw that in there thinking that your max hp would recover itself. If not, then damn, playing with fire is dangerous ;p

164

[quote=“Shoes, post:163, topic:304”]I was told by other devs that an intenstiy 1 “small fire” was akin to burning a piece of paper. There are four intensities, and the have x1, x4, x8, x16 heating effectiveness. I think the problem lies in that fire is hard to control, because really, other than warmth, its only use is destruction.

KA101 : do you regain your lost max hp after you recover from blisters? You said permanent, so probably not. Is that too harsh? I sort of threw that in there thinking that your max hp would recover itself. If not, then damn, playing with fire is dangerous ;p[/quote]Tsk Tsk~
Silly shoes and your forgetting things~~~~~

165

MY GIT IS WORKING!

I pushed these additions, and will work on my short list of fixes I’ve kept for myself. Here is the changelog :

Added blankets, fur blankets (craft only), emergency blankets, sleeping bags, fur sleeping bags (craft only).
Added house coat, snuggie, cloak, fur cloak (craft only), leather cloak (craft only).
Added fur scarf, fur gloves, fur trenchcoat, fur pants, fur boots (all craft only).
All tailoring items that use fur require survival as secondary skill.
Added crafting recipes for bandana, blanket, house coat, cloak.
[\code]

The focus was on allowing the player to craft basic survival items.
166

The temperature calculator is inside of the player Cpp (for anyone wondering). I can’t make heads or tails of it (java man here), but there it is.

167

Yup, I maintain it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

168

[quote=“Shoes, post:165, topic:304”]MY GIT IS WORKING!

I pushed these additions, and will work on my short list of fixes I’ve kept for myself. Here is the changelog :

[code]
Added blankets, fur blankets (craft only), emergency blankets, sleeping bags, fur sleeping bags (craft only).
Added house coat, snuggie, cloak, fur cloak (craft only), leather cloak (craft only).
Added fur scarf, fur gloves, fur trenchcoat, fur pants, fur boots (all craft only).
All tailoring items that use fur require survival as secondary skill.
Added crafting recipes for bandana, blanket, house coat, cloak.
[\code]

The focus was on allowing the player to craft basic survival items.
[/code][/quote]
Any possibility of mutation support making it’s way into 0.5 (or ever)?

169

I just wrote up a fix where a mutated body part that can’t wear clothes will just be skipped. If someone has a better solution, I would like to hear it.

Right now, I am playing with the idea of a mutated player requiring to wear loose fitting clothing (like cloaks that I’ve added) to stay warm, and perhaps add a heat bonus to mutated parts due to higher metabolic activity in that region (or something).

170

[quote=“Shoes, post:163, topic:304”]I was told by other devs that an intenstiy 1 “small fire” was akin to burning a piece of paper. There are four intensities, and the have x1, x4, x8, x16 heating effectiveness. I think the problem lies in that fire is hard to control, because really, other than warmth, its only use is destruction.

KA101 : do you regain your lost max hp after you recover from blisters? You said permanent, so probably not. Is that too harsh? I sort of threw that in there thinking that your max hp would recover itself. If not, then damn, playing with fire is dangerous ;p[/quote]
Haven’t tried, but the answer (permanent loss) is in this thread:
http://www.cataclysmdda.com/smf/index.php?topic=1014.0

171

Using fire to heat yourself sounds stupid considering fire in this game except for maybe logs (I thought I read burn time is based on weight) only lasts like 5 mins.

172

Fire needs an overhaul. It is just weird right now. I’m not sure why it is treated as simply as it is but the whole idea of campfires (and more efficient constructable firepits) is, I think, pretty important in a survival game.

As for mutations, I feel like anything crafted by the player should fit. A boot might not fit on mutated feet, but surely you could custom craft something that would keep your feet warm.

173

I fully agree with this. I’ve cooked food next to fires that spiral out of control too often, without any notification that my character was getting burnt till the crafting ended. Can’t we have the option to create a controlled campfire?

I could see someone being able to craft a boot that could contain hooves, but other mutations (talons, tentacles?) would definitely not be able to put on footwear.

174

[quote=“Shoes, post:156, topic:304”][quote=“kilozombie, post:154, topic:304”]I just feel like a lot of criticism isn’t really met well. I get that the devs have lives and this isn’t at all a full-time project, but the point is that 50 degrees is not too cold to sleep in a bed. Shoes has said this, I have said this, and it remains a thing that happens. I’d love to dive in the code and do it myself, but… I’m not a coder.

I just request there are more options, and more /logical/ ways of getting warm.[/quote]

Thank you for the screen shots; I can see from them that you are playing an outdated version of the game. Perhaps it is the latest you can download, but the problems you are having have already been addressed.

As Kaliffen said, it is much playable in the recent versions. Take a look at a few pages back, I posted some screenshots of those changes.[/quote]

Things are much better in 0.4, but there are still a few problems:

  1. the apparent lag between putting on clothing and warming up. I assume this is intended, and it makes sense. But it’s difficult for the player to figure out what’s going on because there’s an immediate disconnect between the “ENCUMBERANCE AND WARMTH”* section of the screen and the “EFFECTS” section of the screen. So I might wake up from cold, but then I look at my @ screen and everything looks fine.

  2. the effects of being hungry/thirsty/tired are too extreme. yes, your body may get sort of run down if you are hungry. But not to the extent that I’m going to wake up from “being cold” when it’s 50 degrees F / 10 degrees C. Humans sleep best at around 50-60 degrees F, and the metabolism slows while sleeping so the effects of hunger should be muted.

  3. irrelevant/spam information. I have a green (110) on my legs (2 army pants + long underwear). This gives me the effect “Hot legs (your legs feel warm)”. It does nothing, and it’s absolutely not going to change for an entire season.

  4. Mouth cold. Sorry, but if the rest of you is warm your Mouth (and Head generally) just does not get cold. This is a benefit of the human circulatory system. (see also extremely bizarre that you could have warm hands and and cold arms. The blood has to run through the arms to get to the hands. It’s going to even out the temperature differences.)

Just overall you need to widen the temperature tolerances. There is just no way you are going to get frostbite at 30 degrees F / 0 degrees C. If you expanded every threshhold by +/-10 degrees F I think the system would be a lot better.

*(btw the preferred spelling appears to be “encumbrance” not “encumberance”; check the number of google and google scholar results for each)

175

#1 has been sort of addressed in the most recent builds by adding a “(rising)” or “(falling)” next to your current temperature in the status screen to indicate if your current warmth is going up or down.

176

grisamentum : as i2amrow said, 1) has been made more clear. For 2), now that the player starves to death and such, I can make sure the amount of body heat lost makes more sense. 3): I’ve removed most messages because they weren’t adding much. I made the worse case messages appear less frequently.

  1. is a tricky one! I do have code that spreads body heat around, but it is a tough nut to crack. At the moment, a flat 15% of the difference in body heat for two body parts is exchanged. I will rewrite it in the near future so that extremities “steal” more heat and return less.

I also pushed some fixes regarding mutations, and I made sleeping less of a hassle. Hopefully it is still a little hassle when you’re cold!

177

Once wind gets implemented you can have characters suffering from cold more as wind increases the rate you lose body heat rapidly, if there isn’t wind you can be outside fairly comfortably at -5C to -10C but a heavy wind can cause hypothermia even at temperatures 12C.

One can only assume that the world of cataclysm is extremely windy in spring autumn and winter and becalmed in summer.

178

[quote=“Sharp, post:177, topic:304”]Once wind gets implemented you can have characters suffering from cold more as wind increases the rate you lose body heat rapidly, if there isn’t wind you can be outside fairly comfortably at -5C to -10C but a heavy wind can cause hypothermia even at temperatures 12C.

One can only assume that the world of cataclysm is extremely windy in spring autumn and winter and becalmed in summer.[/quote]
If wind chill is added we would also need a wind resistance value, a leather jacket and a rain coat would resist wind chill far better than, say, a dress shirt and a sweater.

179

A recent discussion on IRC incurred a paradigm shift. I will give the player a huge boost to warmth because the sources I use are for humans at rest whereas in cata, the player is quite active. I will have to balance a bit to make sure the player doesn’t over heat during daily activites. For example ambient room temperature is set to 31C, I will lower that to 19C. So if it is 19C / 66F, the player should be comfortable even if naked. This will be a big help when wind eventually gets added.

Speaking of wind, I will only start playing with it after items are finished being rewritten. I imagine that will make adding a wind resistance value that much easier.

180

Thanks, IRC-based paradigm shifters. 88 degrees F is warm, not neutral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius (with handy comparative scales)