Excellent! In the previous verson, all body temperatures would congeal into one value, typically the lowest… was not good.
[quote=“kilozombie, post:100, topic:304”]At daytime (52 degrees average) I can’t wear bare bones clothes (the ones you start with) I get sluggishly cold and my stats are all hampered.
Apparently the ~4 degrees colder that night is actually makes me Very Cold consistently, and to even SLEEP I need to put on a suit, hoodie and another pair of pants. I’m even in a cot, so…[/quote]
So you are only wearing your start clothes? Is that it? Please be more clear. Sleeping in a cot will net a slight reduction in body tempearture: sleeping drops temps, being in a cot recovers a bit.
So at night the temps are 48? With only 10 warmth, you will pretty much on the line between cold and comfortable. Being hungry and tired will push that lower. On a cot, I wouldn’t expect one to reach very cold in their sleep until about 43F, and that’s sleeping on the ground with only 10 warmth.
I am curious to see if I am overlooking something in your case, so please be specific! What is each body part wearing? What is the @ menu reporting? Are you hungry/tired/in the rain? You are sleeping on a deployed cot, right? Also note, for cold, it is only the torso that needs to keep warm. So a suit and hoodie should have helped…
Would it be possible to drop the waking up from cold thing to a level closer to actual damage from cold? Currently I find waking up from the cold and not being able to get to sleep a major annoyance which I usually fix IRL by rolling over and getting another blanket etc without even waking up.
It’s nice to have it to stop yourself becoming an ice block in your sleep, but having to micromanage what pajamas you wear is kinda annoying.
The goal is to be a hindrance though :). It’s a little unclear that only torso is taken into account for sleep calculation, but realistcally, you have a harder time sleeping when it is cold. I don’t have any data points, so I have no problem tweaking the code. At the moment, here is how it works :
If your torso is very cold, you wake up.
If your torso is less than optimal, there is a one in 3500 to one in 4999 chance you will wake up.
The sleepier you are, the more you endure: being very cold and very tired, you will sleep. The idea is, given enough fatigue, you will fall asleep in a meat freezer and die (dying is not part of the game yet though!).
I think I calculated a while ago that, if you are perfectly cold, you have a 13% chance to wake up from cold during an 8 hour sleep.
It is my hope that players now have to think about sleeping before setting out on an adventure. Do you carry a rollmat or a cot? Or maybe you plan on finding a home and stealing the bed. Perhaps this game should start during the summer! :3
If there is 0 wind, then it makes no difference. Wind will eventually be modelled. When wind gets added, the outside will be colder, but the inside will be just as warm/cold.
A house would be insulated and “hold on” to temperature better, that is true, but that is harder to code. Houses would have to remember how warm it was during the day, and then have that warmth bleed into the night, but that would be near negligable I would think. I turned my heating off last week and by the end of the day the house was cold. We turned it back on the next day.
“Closed off” from what? No wind, no humidity. Other than the negligable residue of warmth from the day, there is no advantage to being indoors. And by the time bed time rolls around, that near negligable advantage would be gone.
I do intend on modelling wind at one point, so that will go in when it can, but it will not make buildings warmer, it will make outdoors colder. I will also add a wind resistance value to clothing too when that time comes.
I’ll leave the inside/outside part alone (Ps it’s closed off from the animals) and direct my post towards overall temperature.
You’ve agreed that the lack of activity heating you up is on your list of things you want (or as you put it your radar) so I have a small request in the mean time. Could we just raise our temperature a little to simulate some level of activity at least?
Maybe the temperature gain you would get walking at a good pace at it wouldn’t be a huge increase but it might give a but of a buffer against the cold. After all in the apocalypse I’d expect us all to be at least somewhat active at all times.
Some people are not comfortable with the cold (or the heat like me) but other are because they are acclimatized to it. Maybe another option would be to have a trait that gives a buffer against either heat or cold? Kind of like how optimism works against depression. Not sure how you’d code it or anything, just food for thought.
Huh. My character’s survived into Winter and snowstorms are a thing. Pretty confident that 02Feb doesn’t have vision reduction/terrain overlay for snow, but I can forgive a player for seeing “storm” (Thunder/Lightning/Snow) in the weather line and presuming wind is being factored into things.
Any word on making non-player critters affected by temperature, aside from turning off Swamp spawns in the Winter?
(Thinking that Insects ought to be staying home, too–this means the ant tunnels are more crowded, but the surface is clear–and plants probably not moving much.)
[quote=“TaintedHolyWater, post:106, topic:304”]Maybe the temperature gain you would get walking at a good pace at it wouldn’t be a huge increase but it might give a but of a buffer against the cold. After all in the apocalypse I’d expect us all to be at least somewhat active at all times.
Some people are not comfortable with the cold (or the heat like me) but other are because they are acclimatized to it. Maybe another option would be to have a trait that gives a buffer against either heat or cold? Kind of like how optimism works against depression. Not sure how you’d code it or anything, just food for thought.[/quote]
If the system makes players too cold, I would rather fix the system than fix the symptoms. Players really shouldn’t be very “very cold” unless the situation is dire. If you are getting colder than you think, and not just by a small margin, post some screen shots of the main screen and @ menu like I did a few posts ago. That allows me to see if there are issues with the system.
Traits for body temperature should definitely be a thing as well; to get more visibility, I think people are posting things in the suggestion forums about traits and such.
[quote=“KA101, post:107, topic:304”]Huh. My character’s survived into Winter and snowstorms are a thing. Pretty confident that 02Feb doesn’t have vision reduction/terrain overlay for snow, but I can forgive a player for seeing “storm” (Thunder/Lightning/Snow) in the weather line and presuming wind is being factored into things.
Any word on making non-player critters affected by temperature, aside from turning off Swamp spawns in the Winter?[/quote]
Is this character playing with body temperature on? Because if so, that’s good news I mentioned to one of the lead devs about making temps affect monsters, and he would rather I continue work on just player body temps for now. If you would like, post a write up in the suggestion forums for how things could go, maybe another coder would pick it up. It is pretty independant of what I wrote and would really only rely on weather and temperature.
Yeah, I posted in the traits-thread about increased/decreased temperature tolerances a while back and mentioned them here too.
As for my winter guy: No. So long as the ants, triffids, and other critters can ignore temperature, so can I. Brought him up strictly to point out that players have good reason to want Inside to be warmer than Outside: weatherproofing, R values, etc. Going on and on about no wind/humidity isn’t convincing given Rain’s morale-killing effect and the existence of Storms.
This is everything my current char is wearing and my char has the furry mutation(which I think has no effect despite it’s description saying otherwise), and I can not sleep in a bed and it’s 7 degrees C and I am very cold… how much more stuff do I have to pile on.
Sleeping is the biggest problem. To get comfortable enough to sleep without the cold waking you up, you have to assemble some pretty outrageous pajamas. My character has like three rain coats and a gas mask to make sure his mouth doesn’t get too cold.
Making a blanket/furs/sleeping-bag would help a lot. It could be like an article of clothing with ridiculous encumbrance penalties, since you’d never walk around in it, but which would insulate your whole body.
I think the thing that is really peeving me is that you’re saying there isn’t any “wind” or “humidity” or “heating” in Cataclysm, even though it’s basically just an excuse for you being unable to code for it.
Logically, in any situation, being exposed to the elements is GOING to make it worse. Wind is blocked, heat is insulated, rain stays away, etc.
Wind seems like something that could be abstracted: Storms diminishing ranged accuracy and lowering player temperature by X (while the PC is Outside, obviously) could be a decent first draft.
Re hands: I shudder to think how my combat-monster’s Long Talons (=no gloves whatsoever) would fare with temperature enabled. Might actually kill the guy, if I’m reading these right?
Ambient heating, extreme example: On the second day of winter (roughly 3C, IIRC) I decided to torch a Triffid HQ. Made it into the Roots without difficulty and proceeded to lay waste with the Flamethrower. I realize that being near the fires would warm my character. Good job there. But given that I was moving through & setting fire to the entire hallway, I’d think it ought to raise the ambient temperature a little, too. Hot enough to fry creeper hubs ought to bring the Roots to at least 10C, perhaps?
(Extra bonus: Butchering a Triffid that burned to death yields Cooked Plant Marrow? Probably not.)
[quote=“kilozombie, post:113, topic:304”]I think the thing that is really peeving me is that you’re saying there isn’t any “wind” or “humidity” or “heating” in Cataclysm, even though it’s basically just an excuse for you being unable to code for it.
Logically, in any situation, being exposed to the elements is GOING to make it worse. Wind is blocked, heat is insulated, rain stays away, etc.[/quote]
Unless it’s added, there isn’t any, and from what I’ve seen there are plans to add wind. Heating does exist, from fires.
If you’re inside, you don’t have to worry about rain, snow, etc.
I had forgotten about mutations until about yesterday, someone on the IRC pointed it out. I don’t have a sensible solution, so I will ignore body temps for mutated parts until I or you guys can think of one.
Are you guys getting “very cold” in your sleep (remember, torso only atm)? If not, then it might be a math problem with the odds of one waking up while cold. I can make it less likely.
I could add a flat “penalty” to body temps for different weather patterns, the way sunny and clear already warm you up. But that would make you guys colder, and I hear that’s not what you want ;p When I say my system has no wind, it is to your advantage ;p
KA101 : fire warms the player, and the bigger the fire, the more the warmth. I can’t really make the temperature itself raise because the way that temperature is handled; it’s not handled locally, so you would literally be warming up the entire world. I would love to be able to warm up buildings (and have super cold/hot science labs because of malfunctioning robots or something), but I am not there yet.
Goober : your picture is super small, I can’t see it.
Caconym : can I also get a picture of your @ menu? That lists your current warmth and how it well it should handle the current situations.
Kilozombie : you missed the part where I have life duties along with trying to add an entire game mechanic. Mixed with my first year intro to C++ class, things are a little slow ;p I will get there eventually. Feel free to pick up the slack if it’s a problem; that’s the beauty of open source. As mentioned above, once wind is in the game, it will be harder to stay warm. I will also have to add a wind resistance property to items, which I have to wait for the item rewrite. Like I said, I will get there eventually ;p
I like that the problems have gone from surviving the day, to surviving the night :3 we are making progress.
Some minor differences since the previous image, I changed steel toed boots for winter boots and the temp is 11 degrees C and that’s about it I still get woken by the cold.
I also sometimes get messages like ‘Brr.’ and ‘Your legs feel sluggish from the cold.’ Do I have to wear enough clothes to resemble the michelin man just to be in any way reasonably warm?
Yeah, something funky is going on. Your torso being “very cold” like that means that it is experiencing something equivalient to -12C. I see that you’re tired, that also lowers temp (not that much though). Are your body parts damaged? I don’t see pain or loss of stats, so probably not. Maybe you’re wet too?
Could you email me your save game? the_original_lovok at hotmail. I would like to take a look
I was underground wile I did those screen shots so wet doesn’t affect me as there is no rain underground.
At 12C torso seems fine but occasionally still get woken by the cold and 13 C my feet are nearly burning…
I think I still have pretty much the same stuff on as previous screenshots, or I have put on a load more clothes to become the post-apocalyptic Michelin man.
I’ll e-mail the save anyway.
Also is it hotmail.com or another? Theres about 3 or 4 I can think of.
I mentioned to one of the lead devs about making temps affect monsters, and he would rather I continue work on just player body temps for now. If you would like, post a write up in the suggestion forums for how things could go, maybe another coder would pick it up. It is pretty independant of what I wrote and would really only rely on weather and temperature.
