Scenario Oversights

[Telkoth]

Ok.
Lab Starts. After naming your character, you can choose your spawn place. +8 free points. Also, if you save a template, loading the template always reverts start location to shelter. Also labs starting with Turrets in the doorway kinda makes the runs really short…

Infected Start. You can start as a Medical Resident, and remove the infection first turn. Net gain +3 stat points +3 Medical skill.

[Whitelight]

I tried the lab one, and my first run was instantly stopped by a turret. Hilariously though, my second character spawned in a room with a teleporter. I figured, what the hell, maybe i will get lucky? Well I ended up OUTSIDE of the lab, as a survivor, with +8 points, and it was hilariously easy… probably the best start I have ever had. My question is this:
A) Are you meant to be able to escape from a lab at all with this scenario? If it is intended for escape to be hard but doable I think this might be my new favorite.
B) Are teleporters suppose to be able to teleport you outside of a lab? I mean I litterally went from inside to right outside the entrance by hopping on.
C) Should the teleporter thing be changed to make this scenario more of a challenge suited to its bonus?

[Nathan]

[quote=“Whitelight, post:2, topic:7176”]I tried the lab one, and my first run was instantly stopped by a turret. Hilariously though, my second character spawned in a room with a teleporter. I figured, what the hell, maybe i will get lucky? Well I ended up OUTSIDE of the lab, as a survivor, with +8 points, and it was hilariously easy… probably the best start I have ever had. My question is this:
A) Are you meant to be able to escape from a lab at all with this scenario? If it is intended for escape to be hard but doable I think this might be my new favorite.
B) Are teleporters suppose to be able to teleport you outside of a lab? I mean I litterally went from inside to right outside the entrance by hopping on.
C) Should the teleporter thing be changed to make this scenario more of a challenge suited to its bonus?[/quote]

Thats probably going to be the easiest way to get out, finding a teleporter and using it if one didn’t spawn, but its also risky, bad things could have happened to you.

[Whitelight]

From what I can tell, it might be one of only two ways out. The entrance to the lab (You spawn at the ground level entrance) is locked, and you can’t really open in from the inside. I imagine the only way to get out would be to find something in the lab that would facilitate destruction of the doors which afaik would require a specific cbm. Alternatively you could cheese it by opening the door with another character from the outside.

The teleporter spawning up top with you is just a stroke of luck. You can just as easily have a turret spawn right next to you, but if it does happen you can just repeatedly go through it till you get popped outside of the walls. I know there is a risk using a teleporter but for 8 points it is pretty minimal (I only get 6 points from an infected tweaker start and that sounds like it would be far harder).

My thoughts on this is that it should be possible to escape but it should be challenging (but not impossible) to do so. I am a min maxer so I want to get the most points possible at the start for my build without having to cheat. Having an unwinnable scenario or a nigh impossible scenario kinda puts me off but the teleporter thing is way to easy as well. Prior to the scenarios, starting as a tweaker for the extra 2 points was the best bet but it is nearly impossible to accomplish without ludicrous amounts of luck or reducing the overall difficulty so it was never worth using. I would hate to see this turn out the same way with that juicy 8 points.

So is it possible to get out atm without teleporter cheese? If not perhaps make the challenge lab its own separate generated place similar to labs but with sort of a gauntlet style situation, something you could customize for the scenario.

Edit: Alternatively you could prevent turrets/teleporters spawning at the entrance for characters doing challenge lab starts, then hide some kinda keycard or something capable of opening the door that is sorta guarded/hard to get to.

[kevin.granade]

I am a min maxer so I want to get the most points possible at the start for my build without having to cheat.

You’re looking for a way to break the game. Congratulations, now you get to keep the pieces.

How about you try a scenario that actually challenges you instead of trying to figure out which disadvantages you can circumvent?

[Aravhorn]

[quote=“Whitelight, post:4, topic:7176”]I am a min maxer so I want to get the most points possible at the start for my build without having to cheat.

You’re looking for a way to break the game. Congratulations, now you get to keep the pieces.

How about you try a scenario that actually challenges you instead of trying to figure out which disadvantages you can circumvent?[/quote]
Actually, I would say that breaking the game might be a good thing, since that way you (the devs) can know about any exploits the players can do and try to erradicate them later.

[Whitelight]

Being a min maxer just means I want to get maximum long term potential out of my character, even if the start is much harder. I am not looking for a free meal though, if I wanted that I could just debug or edit statistics directly. I apologize if I come across as “gimme free points” but that is the opposite of what I am saying really. I want as many points as I can get, that is true, but I want to feel like I earned it, and I want it to be “possible” to earn it as well.

I could just open it from the outside with another character, but it is not very fulfilling to have a “preparation” character so I don’t do that. I offered that information under the assumption that it was an addressable loophole, much like the teleporter start and choosing other locations

I have played the scenario several times so far and I believe I am getting better at surviving longer in the labs, but I am not sure if there is a way out available even if I do manage to scour the entire place. It has been a while since the last time I played, so I do not know for sure what can spawn in a lab, this is why I ask “is it intended to be possible.” By this I mean, if I do a challenge lab start at any given unexplored lab, is there a way to get out of that lab available?

If the answer is no, then the world outside of the lab is not relevant to the scenario, and the Challenge Lab should probably be a separate survival mode. If the answer is yes, then with persistence and effort I should be able to figure out a way through those doors. I honestly think I can clear a lab from a fresh start eventually, but if my reward is simply be stuck in the lab most or all of the time then I am not sure if I should continue to strive for this goal. Again, I am not saying “make it easy” I am just asking “is it possible” and I don’t mean “is it possible if the RNG is nice enough to hand me specific components.” If most attempts end without having any options available to get rid of the door because an item simply did not spawn…

And these concerns are why I post here, and why I am attempting to offer possible solutions. I enjoy this game greatly and wish to be constructive. If my views are not shared by others, that is perfectly understandable.

[i2amroy]

Actually, I would say that breaking the game might be a good thing, since that way you (the devs) can know about any exploits the players can do and try to erradicate them later.

Our general approach is to not handle “gimme free points” type exploits. I mean for goodness sakes there is a “initial points” option in the options menu, if you want to start with more points there is no need to do things like that (unless you enjoy fooling yourself into believing that you are somehow experiencing the full amount of challenge intended).

That said if there isn’t a way out other than through a teleporter/demolition charge then that definitely is something that needs to be fixed, there should be at least some way out, regardless of how unlucky you get in the item spawning department.

[Whitelight]

That is all I am really asking then I guess. Is there a way to get out of a lab from the inside that is independent of RNG? A keycard, a switch, an alternate exit, a terminal or anything? I am not asking “what is it” either, just if there is one.

[i2amroy]

That is all I am really asking then I guess. Is there a way to get out of a lab from the inside that is independent of RNG? A keycard, a switch, an alternate exit, a terminal or anything? I am not asking “what is it” either, just if there is one.

No clue, though it would definitely bear looking into.

[pingpong]

I brought up on the discussion subforum, the game scenario should be tweaked somehow to make it more obvious whether we’re doing something kinda stupid (like only trying to survive in a lab or underground) or if we’re supposed to ever escape. I prefer the former, a mole-man living by his wits and ruthless scavenging and possible cannibalism alone, versus an rng start for more points.

[i2amroy]

First, the goal should be to eventually escape. The point of starting scenarios is for it to be a starting scenario, not for it to be a whole new game mode.

As for RNG luck starts, as I mentioned they aren’t that big of a priority. If you want to play with more points you can always just increase the starting point amount and start with whatever else you want to start with. “Free” points aren’t really an issue when there is a valid means of obtaining them.

[Snaaty]

Hey, maybe this has been mentioned before, but apparently the traits assigned via .json are not working.

This means the “Mutant” scenario is basically pointless. Also this prevents the creation of many other awesome scenario ideas.
So, if someone could fix that quickly that would make me a very happy person!

EDIT: Perhaps we can put (recommended) or something like that in the line of the basic evac shelter scenario, so that new playery see the already fleshed out parts of the game first.

EDIT: Also, colour-coding and sorting the scenarios by diffulty and/or amount of things that are locked would make sense, as soon as we get more scenarios.

[Khrysanth]

The traits assigned in the scenario json aren’t “given” to you, they’re available in the trait selection area of chargen as positive/negative traits.

My slime trail leaving tentacled/gilled survivor can attest that they’re working.

[Snaaty]

Yeah; i realized that later as well.

I would really enjoy “forced traits” to be selectable in the .json for certain scenarios.

Scenarios have to be more than just a fixed starting position and Profession.

[Khrysanth]

In the Experiment scenario json, one of the traits made available is “GENETICALLY_UNSTABLE”. Unfortunately, that mutation ID doesn’t exist in mutations.json - Rather, it’s simply “UNSTABLE”.

Addendum: “Heat Dependent” is “COLDBLOOD” by ID.

[KA101]

[quote=“Khrysanth, post:16, topic:7176”]In the Experiment scenario json, one of the traits made available is “GENETICALLY_UNSTABLE”. Unfortunately, that mutation ID doesn’t exist in mutations.json - Rather, it’s simply “UNSTABLE”.

Addendum: “Heat Dependent” is “COLDBLOOD” by ID.[/quote]

Taken care of. Thanks for reporting.

[ArikVhedrovix]

Does smoke block the sight of Turrets? I tried setting fire to a piece of clothing and some files I found to try and block the sight of the turret so I could make it down the hall to the stairs. I figured it would work because the thick smoke blocked MY line of sight. Since I ended up being shot, I guess it doesn’t?

[KA101]

Does smoke block the sight of Turrets? I tried setting fire to a piece of clothing and some files I found to try and block the sight of the turret so I could make it down the hall to the stairs. I figured it would work because the thick smoke blocked MY line of sight. Since I ended up being shot, I guess it doesn’t?

That’s a good question. IRL turrets would be designed to see through smoke, but I’m inclined to let folks smokescreen themselves. Any other thoughts?

[jcd]

i think they should see through smoke, but become slower to react and more inaccurate due to noise in their readings.