Modified Advanced UPS (MAUPS)

[Waladil]

Something that’s always bothered me is power management on a UPS, specifically when using it for Power Armor. It would be wise to toggle it on and off depending on whether you need the power, but I constantly forget to do that and either leave it on while on a reading/crafting bender (wasting power when I don’t need it) or forget to turn it on when fighting (putting hefty maluses on my combat abilities). Therefore, I present the design document of the MAUPS system:

Item Name: MAUPS
Volume: 10, Weight: 0.6kg
Source: Crafted only
Tools needed: (Screwdriver, Integrated Toolset), (Soldering Iron[4], Integrated Toolset)
Recipe: 1x Advanced UPS, 2x electronic scrap, 1x processor board, 5x copper wire, 50x batteries, 1x solar cell
Skill used: Computers (10)
Additional Skills: Electronics (8)
Recipe Location: SICP
Time to complete: 50000
Description: Power sources can be few and far between in a hostile Cataclysm. Designed particularly for use alongside power armor, this Advanced UPS has been modified with an automatic power management unit with a negligible power draw. However, this prevents the manual management of the power supply, instead turning itself on when enemies are visible or temperature management is needed.

Basically, it would shut itself off if no enemies (creatures who are “Hostile” or “Tracking.” Not “Friendly” or “Ignoring.”) have been visible for the last 5 in-game minutes, and if the ambient temperature is something outside of the default comfortable range. (Note: Temperature of the place your character is standing, not necessarily the outdoor temp. Indoors is almost always comfortable.) So if you spend three solid days locked inside a building reading books and crafting stuff, it wouldn’t use three days of power, but if a zombear broke in somehow it would power itself on while you fight the zombear. Then five minutes later shut back off. Although the recipe includes batteries and a solar cell, I wouldn’t call for it to actually have a secondary power system for the management unit. The draw is “negligible” so lets just assume that it drains so little power that it’s not a practical issue.

The first question is: Is this technically feasible? Does the game allow for this kind of a setup?
Second question: Who would be willing to code this? I am not very good at code, and doing something this complex is well beyond me.
Third question: Is this something people would want to be added?

(P.S. I’m also fiddling with the idea of a double variant of this which is basically the same thing but with a recipe calling for 2x Advanced UPS’s instead of one, and it has double the power capacity for slightly less than double the volume and weight.)

[EkarusRyndren]

I think you shouldn’t be able to read, eat, sleep, craft, drive, or really do anything other than fight in powered armor. It’s not meant to be comfortable, it’s ARMOR. Not slacks and a t-shirt. Hell, it’s not just armor, it’s armor meant to be deployed from a vehicle.

[Waladil]

That’s tangential to this feature request. If you feel that way then you can make a request for that. Whether or not you can do other stuff in power armor isn’t really relevant to this item. It would also be very useful for people who use UPS-sourced weaponry like laser guns. Really, the only thing that ties it directly to power armor is the ambient temperature qualification.

[EkarusRyndren]

Lemme reword that for you.

Answer to your first question:
Probably, I’d have to do some checking first but it seems feasible if unneeded.

Answer to your second question:
Not me.

Answer to your third question:
You already have my opinion. The long version is there are already enough “Are you sure?” factors in this game, adding a specific item because people can’t remember to turn off their powered armor before plopping down to study seems like unnecessary bulk.

Additionally, you can already double the capacity of the standard UPS (And possibly the Advanced UPS?) with a Battery Expansion mod, which is a very low level electronics mod.

Lastly, it’s not that I “feel that way” it’s been established that’s how powered armor works. A couple posts…
From KA101
Another “From a truck” referance

[Waladil]

UPS’ always expend power when on, even if they’ve got nothing to power, meaning this applies to all users of UPS systems, not just power armor users. I can edit the description if that’s such a big deal to you. This isn’t an “are you sure” factor, it’s an automated system.

I didn’t know the battery extenders applied to UPS’. Never really tried though. Well, that’s what made it a P.S. and something I’m “fiddling with.”

[EkarusRyndren]

Something that’s always bothered me is power management on a UPS, specifically when using it for Power Armor. It would be wise to toggle it on and off depending on whether you need the power, but I constantly forget to do that and either leave it on while on a reading/crafting bender (wasting power when I don’t need it) or forget to turn it on when fighting (putting hefty maluses on my combat abilities).

You opened your post with the statement that you’ve forgotten to handle the power properly and with powered armor, forgive me for thinking it was about forgetfulness and power armor. It may apply to the other UPS items but the fact still stands that this is an unneeded item when a better fix would be to prevent power usage when the device is not in use. (Or more accurately a minimal draw “standby mode” when it’s not in use.) However the point still stands that powered armor isn’t a long-term use item and should eat your batteries/plutonium like there’s no tomorrow, that’s it’s balancing factor. That’s a main balancing factor of a great deal of the UPS powered devices.

[Waladil]

You opened your post with the statement that you’ve forgotten to handle the power properly and with powered armor, forgive me for thinking it was about forgetfulness and power armor. It may apply to the other UPS items but the fact still stands that this is an unneeded item when a better fix would be to prevent power usage when the device is not in use. (Or more accurately a minimal draw “standby mode” when it’s not in use.) However the point still stands that powered armor isn’t a long-term use item and should eat your batteries/plutonium like there’s no tomorrow, that’s it’s balancing factor. That’s a main balancing factor of a great deal of the UPS powered devices.

…Except that it doesn’t. A fully-charged Advanced UPS lasts for several days before running out. And as far as I’m aware, a UPS running power armor doesn’t actually drain much/any more power than a UPS just running. Is that a design oversight/bug? Maybe. But if you’re going to talk about the way power armor IS, then maybe you should acquaint yourself with the way it WORKS, rather than what people have SAID.

Yes, I envision this as a factor of power armor, but that’s not the only use.

Anyway, you’ve given your opinion, that this is an unnecessary item and it should be player responsibility to manage his/her own power supplies. That’s a reasonable opinion and I respect it.

[Leper]

I like this idea. Speaking from a strictly in-universe perspective, it seems plausible that the MAUPS could use the same technology found in the turrets to detect enemies and determine whether they are hostile or not, and just checking the temperature is super easy.

I’ve liked to use laser pistols a lot ever since FO2 when I reached New Reno (“Lightbringers that cut people in half!”), and I would definitely use this item as soon as I could assemble it.

[Pthalocy]

I agree that forgetting to turn off these huge bulky battlesuits and the like is a frustrating problem. I also think that being able to do domestic stuff in them seems kinda difficult. I can’t hold a book with hockey equipment on, making them out of battle-ready alloys and strapping a battery to my back just seems even harder.

Having an auto-off after a while would be a smart feature, having an auto-on would completely remove any sort of management on the player’s part. I feel that while a lot of “are you sure??” in game can get annoying, this is a survival game and to remove a resource-management cue like that would be kind of inappropriate.

Rather than re-design my flashlight for lacking an auto-off, I just learn to turn off my flashlight. We make it obvious the thing is on by making the item bright yellow in one’s inventory, rather than managing it for them or asking them repeatedly with interrupting messages.

Unfortunately; my two cents.

[KA101]

Williham’s the one who designed and Lore’d up Power Armor. Search for DoubleTech Industries, his in-universe corporation.

As for the excessive safety-checks, I like ‘em and even use the capital letters (chiefly to avoid problems when y and n are movement keys–frickin’ no-numpad keyboard layouts).

As for the merits: I’m thinking manual switching is the way to go. Could be because I almost never use UPS-powered devices (and I think the energy weapons should either draw from UPS or take ammo, not both).

So mild oppose. Not really bothered if this gets in and not bothered if it doesn’t.

[Waladil]

I’m not sure where the idea of “are you sure” prompts came in. In my design, there would be no “are you sure” prompt for this. There would be messages but they’d be “Your MAUPS turns on with a soft hum” and “Your MAUPS toggles off.” Not a popup, just a log message like you already get after manually turning a UPS on/off.

[system]

Maybe it automatically shuts off after an hour? With a prompt like “Your MAUPS has run out of time, restart? Y/N?”

[Waladil]

Maybe it automatically shuts off after an hour? With a prompt like “Your MAUPS has run out of time, restart? Y/N?”

No, not that at all. More prompts = bad. Simple timer = bad. Actual automation = good.

[aleksix]

What about strapping that MAUPS onto the power armor? Makes sense in-game, not too OP, since you can’t use it to power other things, removes useless cluster in inventory.

[system]

What about strapping that MAUPS onto the power armor? Makes sense in-game, not too OP, since you can’t use it to power other things, removes useless cluster in inventory.

This.

[Natures_Witness]

I for a one would love to see some improvements to the UPS system in general, it’s pretty clunky. I once looked into adding a tool modthat would convert any device to UPS power, but the whole code system for the UPS is way too screwy to support it. I also think it would be a neat if you could “overcharge” your armor; increases power drain, but gives a boost to strength and speed.

[kevin.granade]

NaturesWitness: this is kind of a side issue, but using the same model as the “rechargeable power pack” mod that was introduced a while back would be a way to support UPS powered tools without having to add two versions of every tool (which was the main problem with making tools convertable to use UPS power back when you first suggested it).

I’m also a bit skeptical about the “auto-off” UPS concept, it would be feasable to implement, but makes me feel uneasy about taking control away from the user, and it seems like quite a lot of smarts to build into a power supply.

As Pthalocy notes, maybe we should look at making it more obvious when power is being drained, maybe a power readout for UPSs nest to the bionic power meter? Could show remaining charge and highlight when it’s on. Seems like something worth having in the HUD.

[superninjakiwi]

We could have the recipe be found in a rare book, likely in a military area.

[deadmerits]

Kevin I assumed the auto off was meant to assume the player had turned if off to to not needed it rather then the device knowing when it wasn’t used.*

Anyways that’s beside the point because I like the idea of a message every few turns that it’s on, just a Your power armor hums(or hisses w/e it does)., or like you said an update of the remaining charge.

I was wrong, thanks for correcting me though

[Waladil]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:17, topic:4758”]NaturesWitness: this is kind of a side issue, but using the same model as the “rechargeable power pack” mod that was introduced a while back would be a way to support UPS powered tools without having to add two versions of every tool (which was the main problem with making tools convertable to use UPS power back when you first suggested it).

I’m also a bit skeptical about the “auto-off” UPS concept, it would be feasable to implement, but makes me feel uneasy about taking control away from the user, and it seems like quite a lot of smarts to build into a power supply.

As Pthalocy notes, maybe we should look at making it more obvious when power is being drained, maybe a power readout for UPSs nest to the bionic power meter? Could show remaining charge and highlight when it’s on. Seems like something worth having in the HUD.[/quote]

To speak primarily to your second section:
This is intended as an optional upgrade. It is not strictly better than manually managing your power supply. Anyone using this chooses to do so because they’d rather have the convenience over greater manual efficiency (also small downsides in weight and volume). So no control is being taken away from the user; they’re giving it away.
Yes, it would take quite a lot of smarts to build this: Note the skill requirements. Computers 10 and electronics 8. Creating the Advanced UPS itself takes electronics 9 and mechanics 1. So while it is slightly easier to build the circuitry, it also takes advanced programming knowledge (the skill book is SICP) to design the system architecture.

Kevin I assumed the auto off was meant to assume the player had turned if off to to not needed it rather then the device knowing when it wasn’t used. Anyways that’s beside the point because I like the idea of a message every few turns that it’s on, just a Your power armor hums(or hisses w/e it does)., or like you said an update of the remaining charge.

No, it is intended that the device monitors your surroundings and knowing whether or not it’s used. Hence the high levels of computer knowledge needed; you’re coding a system by which the device can track conditions and manage itself. The temperature system would be relatively easy (attach thermometer. If temperature is not between X and Y, turn on), but enemies would be harder. Maybe it can trace the ambient goo levels in the air or some technobabble like that.

I’d like to see this and other things represent the player beginning to master his surroundings; at the beginning you struggle to merely survive, then you adapt old stuff to new situations, and finally you start making entirely new things, designed by a survivor, for a survivor. For example, that’s part of why I chose SICP for the book; it has general knowledge you’d need to make it, but not clearly detailed recipes.