Item blacklist mod discussion

[infectedmochi]

No I didn’t get mad at you because that would be stupid of me. And I already made my point that the inclusion of wristwatch is probably a mistake unless the dev say otherwise. I just tired of the circle of people taking cheapshot at each other, if you don’t want me to point out the potential misleading part (that is assume that the implication wasn’t your intention to begin with) in your post, you shouldn’t post it in the first place.

[vache]

Side-handle batons (sometimes referred to as T-batons or Nightsticks) are batons with a short side handle at a right angle to the shaft, about six inches from one end. The main shaft is typically 61 centimetres (24 in) in length. They are derived from the tonfa, an Okinawan kobudō weapon, and are used with a similar technique (although Tonfas are usually used in pairs, whereas side-handle batons are not). The best-known example is the Monadnock PR-24, which has become a genericized trademark within the law enforcement and security communities for this type of product.

I am fine with an added item named with any of those terms for police item spawns, though I would prefer nightstick personally. Tonfa can remain largely wooden, and found in dojo spawns and from crafting. Police nightsticks should be a harder material like reinforced plastic, uncraftable, and probably do a bit more damage.

Also, would it make sense for tonfa to spawn in pairs and make the item “a pair of tonfa” instead of “tonfa”, since that is normally how they are used?

[kevin.granade]

Alright, nobody said watches when specifying jewellery The idea was necklaces , rings , dental grills and the like. Watches are hardly jewellery.

I agree that watches shouldn’t be removed in the mod, at least not wristwatches. Wristwatches aren’t “jewelry” by anybody’s standards, they are a functional tool.

I’m not a mind reader, I’m trying to take some vaguely-worded categories and translate them into actual item lists. It’s far more useful for the list to be broad than narrow, so if something reasonably fits into the category, I’m adding it. All we need is one more person to clarify that the didn’t mean watches to bring it under the line, and you might want to take this opportunity to edit your vote to be more precise.

Also stop arguing about semantics, for the love of god.

Who’s that even aimed at?

(Possibly could be renamed the more generic “police baton”, as to be completely honest the average American (including myself previously) only knows the tonfa as: “That baton the coppers use in England because they aren’t allowed to use guns.” (And before anybody jumps down my throat about that statement, I realize it’s a gross generalization, but that is the first thing that springs to people’s minds over here when they see a tonfa)

The reason it’s not named that is because the more generic term is way too generic, as I’ve already pointed out. If you don’t recognize the term, either read the description or look it up.

[quote=“infectedmochi, post:39, topic:6401”][quote=“IcedPee, post:38, topic:6401”]I have to wonder if the misinterpretation of their inclusion in “jewelry” wasn’t a purposeful, passive-agressive way of lashing out against people who wanted content removed in the first place.[/quote] Really?! And I think implying of others’ wrongdoings without concrete proof is passive-agrresive too and a good way to start a flamewar too. The developers haven’t give a reply to why the normal wristwatch was included, so for now can we just assume it’s a mistake???

One satirical throw-away line in my post is the only thing you quote, without any actual comment on the real content of the post (the part related to the tonfa discussion)

Getting mad at me for “starting a flamewar” while only quoting (and therefore drawing particular attention to) the single controversial line of my post and making it more likely people will notice it.[/quote]
If you don’t want to get called out for “satirical one-liners”, you might not want to make them in the first place. It’s perfectly valid to call someone out for particular statements, why wouldn’t it be?

[RipRoarinBoogerPenis]

Add night stick. Remove watch from blacklist.

[kevin.granade]

Feel free to vote in the voting thread: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=6736.0 , but you can only vote for, not against.

[IcedPee]

Kevin, I think you’re misenterpreting my reasons for my suggestions: The issue with the Tonfa is that people can’t decide whether or not it should be included in the “foreign weapons” blacklist category, yes?
Well, most of this confusion appears to stem from the name: Tonfa. Katana, Wakizashi, Tonfa. They all sound vaguely foreign, and while we know the first two are very rarely used in Western countries and are (rightly) blacklisted, the latter HAS been extensively used, and is therefore not an exclusively ‘foreign’ weapon per say. Certainly it’s nowhere near as ludicrous to imagine a person finding and fighting with basically a forked hardwood stick than an authentic katana. So if the name was changed to ‘police baton’ as is the generally accepted term by Americans (such as the player character), it would appear to fit more.

As a side note: I don’t understand how the term “police baton” is any more general than, say, a “golf club”. I mean, with the latter we could be talking about anything from a 9-iron to a putter and I don’t see anybody that is concerned with refining the name (nor should they, that’s just silly). There are other examples of this in the game but I feel I’ve made my point.

[kevin.granade]

Kevin, I think you’re misenterpreting my reasons for my suggestions: The issue with the Tonfa is that people can’t decide whether or not it should be included in the “foreign weapons” blacklist category, yes?

That is not the issue at all. People said they wanted “Japanese weapons” on the blacklist. The Tonfa is a Japanese weapon, therefore it’s on the list. Izicata in particular strenuously objected to this, and attempted to make all kinds of ultimately irrelevant arguments about it not actually being a Japanese weapon. However he DID make a successful end-run around the whole process by contributing the “PR-24 tactical restraint system”, which can not by any stretch of the imagination be considered a “Japanese weapon”, therefore it’s now in the game, and not on the blacklist, and he’s presumably happy with himself.
I’m happy too, I’m not trying to piss in anyone’s cereal here, I set out some simple rules and I’m just trying to stick to them. Also I counter-contributed a feature that lets you activate it to extend it, it goes “snap!”, which makes me happy, and I’m sure it’ll make other people happy too. After you’re done “lawfully restraining” the zombie’s brains out of their skulls, you can activate it again to collapse it and make it fit in your pocket. I do NOT know how we’ve survived so long without this feature… oh wait, people are dying in droves, so I guess we aren’t

As a side note: I don’t understand how the term “police baton” is any more general than, say, a “golf club”. I mean, with the latter we could be talking about anything from a 9-iron to a putter and I don’t see anybody that is concerned with refining the name (nor should they, that’s just silly). There are other examples of this in the game but I feel I’ve made my point.

The difference between the two examples is that a 9-iron and a putter don’t differ by all that much combat-wise except for weight, so “golf club” is a perfectly acceptable designation for anything in that general family. Plus golf clubs are pretty universally terrible at beating people with.
With a “police baton” vs a “tonfa” on the other hand, one is a glorified stick (a very well-weighted one, but still essentially a stick), and the other is one of the finest close quarters bludgeoning weapons in existence, the difference is staggeringly massive, and one the game system cares about a great deal, so that’s a difference we want to capture. In particular it very much deserves rapid attack along with at least WBLOCK_2, in addition to being a very lightweight and therefore pretty fast weapon to start with, also quite a few martial arts use it extensively. A plain baton on the other hand doesn’t merit rapid attack, and it might not even merit WBOCK_1.

[DeKaFu]

I know it’s been suggested, but I’d also like to put in a vote for breaking the mod down into a series of themed lists. I’d be happy to see sexual content removed, but pretty much everything else on the list I’m either neutral towards or would sorely miss. I wouldn’t be surprised if only being annoyed by certain classes of items and wanting to keep others is pretty universal.

Also, if bondage gear is blacklisted, will the related profession also be removed or just rendered broken?

[kevin.granade]

it’s broken, the lost submissive just starts out mostly naked with this enabled.
I’ve already addressed splitting the blacklist previously.
Specifically, I don’t consider ‘adult content’ a sensical category, if you don’t like the extent of the blacklist, it is literally a matter of a minute or so to delete the entries you don’t want in there.

[trelatyraelis]

Watches/dive watches and all the watches without the fancy tag are not jewellery. When I said jewellery I explicitly stated brooches, pearl necklaces, earrings and everything with the fancy tag, useless by itself unless someone has the stylish perk.
Edit: forgot to post it in the vote thread also.

[kevin.granade]

Watches/dive watches and all the watches without the fancy tag are not jewellery.

you already said so yes. how I treat your vote has been adjusted.

When I said jewellery I explicitly stated brooches, pearl necklaces, earrings and everything with the fancy tag, useless by itself unless someone has the stylish perk.

No, you didn't, you said "jewelry (some examples)", I was left to interpret that incredibly vague vote, and I'd appreciate not being hassled about it. if you don't want to be misunderstood, be clear. you clarifying your vote doen't change the interpretation of the rest of the votes, just yours, so as it stands the outcome is unchanged.

I said that before, but in the discussion thread, forgot to put it here too.

How hard is this concept? That's the voting thread, this is the discussion thread. from now on anything that isn't a vote in the other thread will be deleted, it's a waste of my time to move them here. if you want to change your vote somehow, edit your original vote post.

EDIT to fix broken quote tag.

[trelatyraelis]

Whoa, anger!

[KA101]

Whoa, anger!

For those of us who put our time and effort into making the game, dealing with folks who appear to not put in similar effort can be justifiably frustrating.

If you can’t be bothered to even sort your input properly when telling us which of our work you consider unfit for your tastes, then calling us on our resulting anger is amazingly inappropriate.

[kevin.granade]

Whoa, anger!

Wow, sensitive much? What did I say that gave you the impression I’m angry?
I responded to your statements, corrected your mischaracterization of your vote, and informed the thread that I’m not copying over posts from the voting thread any more. Don’t see any anger there.

[Senrain]

I just think people need to stop crying over certain items being in the game. There are items that I’m not too wild about, so I ignore said items and don’t pick them up. It’s really that easy, you’re not being forced to pick up the Japanese weapons or bondage suits, which honestly you’d probably find that shit lying around in people’s homes IRL as well.

I mean, it’s probably not my place to bitch about a mod I don’t have to use, but I honestly think some people need to grow the fuck up.

[Inquisitor_Dust]

So, er… I don’t want to get involved in this whole fight going on, but would it make sense to integrate medieval weapons mod into the main jsons then make a blacklist mod instead?

[kevin.granade]

It would, I’m planning on doing that to all the content removal mods just as soon as I get around to it.
Or someone else can feel free to do the same:

1. Make a “No_” mod folder and modinfo.json file containing a blacklist.
2. Populate said blacklist with the ids of the items in the corresponding mod you’re replacing. (you don’t have to worry about the recipes)
3. Copy the .json files from the corresponding mod to the main json folder.
   It might be more appropriate to just copy the files over, it might be better to merge them into existing files, or organize them some other way. Use judgement or ask.
4. Put up PR on github.

[Tawarochir]

Why… why is the fedora being removed?

And the Dragonskin Vest? I haven’t found one in normal gameplay and Wikipedia tells me that they’re real.

I could care less about the bikinis, clown stuff, useless stuff like the fishbowl and dental grill, and the clown gear… but why specifically the fedora?

Not that I won’t remove it from my own blacklist immediately of course.

Also, my actual vote is missing from the list, but the one where I quoted the second guy is still there.

[kevin.granade]

Supposedly there’s some reference to a fedora in MLP, and therefore that makes it evil? That’s all I’ve been able to gather.
Regarding the dragonskin vest, some people object to items that are “too good”, alternately someone might not know what it is and think it’s some kind of fantasy reference, even though the description clearly states what it is.
You get one vote post in the thread, additional ones will be deleted. If you don’t want to vote for all the stuff you’re quoting, edit your post to change the items mentioned. If you do edit it, please remove the quote tags, otherwise I might miss the change.

[Tawarochir]

Okay then. I’ll go replace my post with my REAL post, the first one.