Humble Idea Bundle 0.0.9

Game Talk The Drawing Board
21

DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH!!!

“Adapted by the KKK” ADAPTED - verb
past tense: adapted; past participle: adapted
make (something) suitable for a new use or purpose; modify.

“EXISTENCE PROVEN BY PROFESSIONAL BOXERS SUCH AS MIKE TYSON, AND ZAB JUDAH” (BOTH OF WHICH WERE AFRICAN AMERICAN)

Are you guys seriously daft enough to shoot down a fighting style just because bad people used it once? Jesus Christ, Nazi’s used guns! Guess we can’t put those in the game!

Seriously it pisses me off that ethics plays a role in a game that is based on THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD! Aren’t you supposed to be able to chose who your character was before the cataclysm? This “goody goody” totally ousts any realism of Cataclysm.

“OBVIOUSLY there are no white supremacists before the cataclysm” - quote Nobody Ever, 2014.

22

[quote=“Apex, post:21, topic:7544”]DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH!!!

“Adapted by the KKK” ADAPTED - verb
past tense: adapted; past participle: adapted
make (something) suitable for a new use or purpose; modify.

“EXISTENCE PROVEN BY PROFESSIONAL BOXERS SUCH AS MIKE TYSON, AND ZAB JUDAH” (BOTH OF WHICH WERE AFRICAN AMERICAN)

Are you guys seriously daft enough to shoot down a fighting style just because bad people used it once? Jesus Christ, Nazi’s used guns! Guess we can’t put those in the game!

Seriously it pisses me off that ethics plays a role in a game that is based on THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD! Aren’t you supposed to be able to chose who your character was before the cataclysm? This “goody goody” totally ousts any realism of Cataclysm.

“OBVIOUSLY there are no white supremacists before the cataclysm” - quote Nobody Ever, 2014.[/quote]

While you are obviously going to get a lot of deserved flack for replying in such an angry manner, they should have read your original post more carefully before calling it KKK style.

23

You’re not doing yourself any favors with that response. I did some “fucking research” and questions of racism aside, my opinion is that it’s a myth. Developing and spreading a martial arts style in prison is a laughable concept. Martial arts requires immense amounts of supervised training to be worth a damn, and I fail to see how that could possibly happen in an environment where you’re going to be isolated from every other inmate if you as much as look like you’re fighting.

24

Do you think something like MCMAP would be a suitable addition? I’d absolutely love to have a martial art style that works with rifles, either as clubs or with bayonets :stuck_out_tongue:

25

I’m sure that would go in.

26

I’m sure that would go in.[/quote]

Balance problem: having effective melee capability whilst wielding a firearm. It’d likely have to be a quest reward (I’m sure the Old Guard can supply an instructor). Further, I’m not sure how to distinguish it from Krav Maga, which I believe also incorporates firearms-as-melee-weapons IRL.

So yeah, definitely an option but implementation would take some tweaking.

27

Just got a good idea! How about instead of say, separate styles for eastern and European swordplay we include a melee version of unarmed brawling? Sure the techniques are different, but for the most part they accomplish the same thing ((Unlike the very specialized roles of fencing/silat/eskrima))

28

While I don’t have a problem with melee brawling, it doesn’t replace kenjutsu, fencing or other weapon styles.

29

Yeah. Fencing and Kenjutsu are vastly different because their weapons are vastly different. A generic “use melee weapons Better” style wouldn’t make much sense from a balance standpoint.

30

[quote=“KA101, post:26, topic:7544”]Balance problem: having effective melee capability whilst wielding a firearm. It’d likely have to be a quest reward (I’m sure the Old Guard can supply an instructor). Further, I’m not sure how to distinguish it from Krav Maga, which I believe also incorporates firearms-as-melee-weapons IRL.

So yeah, definitely an option but implementation would take some tweaking.[/quote]

Why is that a balance problem? Not meaning to argue, I just honestly don’t see why being able to use a gun with a bayonet effectively in melee is an issue. Switching weapons takes almost no time at all in this game, and sacrificing a machete to add a sword bayonet to a gun is pretty much objectively inferior to using the gun and the machete seperately. A gun with a sword bayonet is a mediocre weapon at best, it gets damaged extremely quickly in regular combat, and it has a significant recoil penalty over just using the gun by itself. I really like bayonets, and having a martial art that allows me to use one without completely ruining my combat performance is pretty much the main goal of my suggestion. There’s really no advantage to ever using bayonets at all in their current implementation.
And yeah, Krav Maga could also make use of bayonets, but it does already get the blanket bonus to cutting damage, so I figured that was what that was intended to represent. You’re still far better off wielding a broadsword than a bayonet with Krav Maga though, so i’d be happy if that were to be tweaked.

Feel free to ignore this, just thought i’d offer my view on the issue.

31

[quote=“Solusphere, post:30, topic:7544”][quote=“KA101, post:26, topic:7544”]Balance problem: having effective melee capability whilst wielding a firearm. It’d likely have to be a quest reward (I’m sure the Old Guard can supply an instructor). Further, I’m not sure how to distinguish it from Krav Maga, which I believe also incorporates firearms-as-melee-weapons IRL.

So yeah, definitely an option but implementation would take some tweaking.[/quote]

Why is that a balance problem? Not meaning to argue, I just honestly don’t see why being able to use a gun with a bayonet effectively in melee is an issue. Switching weapons takes almost no time at all in this game, and sacrificing a machete to add a sword bayonet to a gun is pretty much objectively inferior to using the gun and the machete seperately. A gun with a sword bayonet is a mediocre weapon at best, it gets damaged extremely quickly in regular combat, and it has a significant recoil penalty over just using the gun by itself. I really like bayonets, and having a martial art that allows me to use one without completely ruining my combat performance is pretty much the main goal of my suggestion. There’s really no advantage to ever using bayonets at all in their current implementation.
And yeah, Krav Maga could also make use of bayonets, but it does already get the blanket bonus to cutting damage, so I figured that was what that was intended to represent. You’re still far better off wielding a broadsword than a bayonet with Krav Maga though, so i’d be happy if that were to be tweaked.

Feel free to ignore this, just thought i’d offer my view on the issue.[/quote]

Balance problem because a highly effective melee + ranged package would render other styles obsolete. Who needs mystical kung fu strikes, exotic ways to use a baton, or searching for a particular kind of sword, when you can just quarterstaff folks with your L523-MBR or stick 'em with your M4A1 (bayonet) ?

Restricting MCMAP to “effective bayonet-usage” fits with the general scheme of DDA martial arts (styles are rendered with cinematic focus on One Main Theme: TKD is much more than “blocks + kicking” IRL, for example) but still leaves the problem of a style that benefits melee whilst you have a ranged weapon in your hands.

So MCMAP is worth considering, but needs a lot of tweaking at best, and (more importantly) needs its own thread for the purpose.

32

Considering guns are not MELEE_DURABLE, I don’t sense a problem with balance here.
Having to lug around an extra firearm repair kit…

33

[quote=“Murphy, post:32, topic:7544”]Considering guns are not MELEE_DURABLE, I don’t sense a problem with balance here.
Having to lug around an extra firearm repair kit…[/quote]

OK. I’d thought damage would accrue to the bayonet, not the M4. (And the L39 and L39-45–the semi-auto ones, not the machine pistols–actually are DURABLE_MELEE. Leadworks seriously overengineered 'em when converting the larger MP frames to a dedicated semi-auto.)

34

Ha. New favorite gun for me, then.

35

If we do branch eastern and western style swordplay (And we focus on making it feel more cinematic than realistic, like how martial arts were handled) I could see katana wielders getting a style that grants higher damage to consecutive attacks against the same enemy while western weapons focus more around formation and field tactic; making it easier to wade right into a crowd of zeds and send them all sprawling. Some ideas.

*Post apocalyptic street-samurai techniques.
-A damage buff that stacks each time you attack the same enemy but is lost when changing targets
-A free step after killing a foe with three stacks of the above
-An extra damaging attack executed when drawing the sword from its sheathe

*New age Knights of old techniques
-A barreling attack that knocks the target and anybody target adjacent to the ground
-A powerful damage bonus to downed opponents
-A huge overhead swing that can only be used after three or more turns of running in the same direction, knocks an enemy backwards and has a domino effect on anyone they collide with.

36

[quote=“Logrin, post:35, topic:7544”]If we do branch eastern and western style swordplay (And we focus on making it feel more cinematic than realistic, like how martial arts were handled) I could see katana wielders getting a style that grants higher damage to consecutive attacks against the same enemy while western weapons focus more around formation and field tactic; making it easier to wade right into a crowd of zeds and send them all sprawling. Some ideas.

*Post apocalyptic street-samurai techniques.
-A damage buff that stacks each time you attack the same enemy but is lost when changing targets
-A free step after killing a foe with three stacks of the above
-An extra damaging attack executed when drawing the sword from its sheathe

*New age Knights of old techniques
-A barreling attack that knocks the target and anybody target adjacent to the ground
-A powerful damage bonus to downed opponents
-A huge overhead swing that can only be used after three or more turns of running in the same direction, knocks an enemy backwards and has a domino effect on anyone they collide with.[/quote]

Iaijutsu (sp) is already in, though it’s no better than a standard attack.

Rest, meh. Looks like a lot of coding.