How do you guys play without some savescumming?

[crazykiddeath]

If you fire without steading, you quite possibly will get the first shot off, especially if you have some bonus to speed. Of course you’ll need exceptional skill to actually hit like that, like in the example you gave.
Now read what TheMurderUnicorn put above and ask yourself why anyone would bother installing an automated turret that was worse then the average/good shooter.
If you are already armoured up I don’t understand why you are having so much trouble tbh, 9mm turrets don’t do THAT much damage.

[TooDAMNMuch]

i heavily god-mode myself in this game though, if something can force me to pay attention even it’s broken as all fuck, hulks, shockers, you name it, all trivial, beyond trivial even, the only thing that can touch me is electronic fuckery.

[Caligula]

It is actually easier to kill the autonomous “military grade” tank drone on this game than the turrets, since they are always on the surface and you can just run over then with a heavy vehicle.

If you don’t think that’s laughable i don’t really know what to say.

[TooDAMNMuch]

very good point as well, although to be fair i haven’t seen one of those in such a long time it’s a bit strange, i also haven’t been attacked by a thriller or shia lebouf lately come to think of it. especially shia was stupidly common for quite a while there anyway.

[Caligula]

i also haven’t been attacked by a thriller or shia lebouf lately come to think of it.

They have been moved to the “Crazy Cataclysm” mod, add it to your next world if you want them back.

[SirPendrak]

This might not be right place for this discussion, but anyway.
Most reliable way to deal with turrets i use, with everyday equipement, so not full powerarmor/backpack of EMP or control laptop if you find that too OP or have not crafted it yet are rivtech 8mm pistols.
Pretty common drop from military pilots/soldiers/bio-ops. To use them safely you need arround 5-6 skill in pistols, 10-12 dex would be nice too. Then you put laser sight on it. Can add holo or telescopic sight, or pistol scope, but thats rare for >12 range sniping. Then you get heavy survivor suit, plate curiass or MBR vest and heavy surv helmet. This setup is perfect everyday life saver and not that much encumbring. I sitll dont reccomend soaking all 100 bullets with it, but you should survive one burst if mistake is made. And while not every turret can be engaged at >12 range, almost all can be engaged at 7-12. And with this setup about 80% of shots should do zero damage to you, the rest should not be really painfull, and not on lethal bodyparts. With aim speed of ~250 you can place well aimed shot after taking 2-3 shots first. And one 8x40mm caseless should wreck turret. As bonus, if you carry 25r mag and some HVP ammo, you can kill Tanks with that pistol. They are big as house so no problem shooting them with all crits from ~45 range. And 2-3 shots for chicken walker.
And about cheating wood logs to do the unfrozing… Jesus christ, you can just disassembly one drawer, cut up the wood into small pieces, and you should be set up for half of Spring, and then nothing freezes anymore…

[Stevepunk]

It’s almost as if the lab start challenge was designed to challenge your playstyle…
/s

In all seriousness though this is probably the most atmospheric game I’ve played and it’s all down to the risk element. If there was nothing to worry about then the game would be dull.

[TheMurderUnicorn]

ahem

Shameless self-plug here for my lab playthrough.

First couple of episodes, I get my bearings and have a stupid plan. By episode 6 or 7 I’ve got an actual plan. Somewhere around 12 I actually escape.

Also, because I’m a big boy and already got my words in, I should point out we’ve gone pretty off-topic.

[Caligula]

Thanks friend, i will try this out.

[faefux]

Really? In what way does your statement contribute to the conversation whatsoever?

The point is very clear in the second part of my paragraph, which was that it goes against how the game is designed. Don’t be a twat, if you’re going to post here then you should post in good faith. What use is this?

if i can see the turret, it can see me and it can shoot much faster.

It is a machine, Machines are more often than not faster than humans. How else can i put this?

Not really, there are dozens of games where fighting against turrets is actually fun

Those games do not tend towards some kind of realism, anyway, this is whataboutism (or whatever you want to call it.) it is not a valid argument by any stretch of the imagination. Plus, it is not your call on what is fun and it is nobodies job to tailor the game to your idea of fun, you are free to fork the game on github and makes these changes if you feel you or a group of you will get more enjoyment out of it being different.

there’s human professional shooters that can fire a gun from a holster accurately and have it holstered again almost faster than the human eye can see

Do you have a source on this? Also, even if this were true ‘There are’ does not mean the survivor can. the survivor is often a regular person, not a professional marksman
that spent there whole life practicing this one move, more often than not.

It is actually easier to kill the autonomous “military grade” tank drone on this game than the turrets, since they are always on the surface and you can just run over then with a heavy vehicle.

If you don’t think that’s laughable i don’t really know what to say.

If you feel this is true then start a discussion on github and make the change. though i’d bet irl money that you will be told this is an argument for the tank drone to be more powerful, not to nerf the turret.

This thread is a trash fire and you should all probably just stop if you’re just going to whine and not contribute.

[Mantar]

ask yourself why anyone would bother installing an automated turret that was worse then the average/good shooter

This right here. Those turrets are designed to kill intruders, including invading Chinese soldiers, apparently. Why would you ever build them like in Half-Life, with a long, loud spinup time that alerts you and lets you shoot at them? That’s video-game silliness only appropriate for triple-A titles where they want you to win. A roguelike should not favor the player, but instead play fair and be disinterested in how well you do. (And nastier roguelikes, like Slash’EM, seem to actively favor your enemies)

The turrets in game do have an aim delay, it’s just a little faster at aiming than humans are, which is reasonable.

[kevin.granade]

You’re factually correct in that the game IS intended to be played without save points or savescumming, but please tone down the language a bit.

there’s human professional shooters that can fire a gun from a holster accurately and have it holstered again almost faster than the human eye can see

Do you have a source on this?

I would guess he’s referring to something like this:

I don’t find this kind of thing particularly compelling, since the ranges used for quickdraw exhibitions like this are extremely short, and if you notice the lead-up time before the gun leaves the holster the first time can be very long. I don’t consider it indicative of a real feat of reaction fire since you need to notice a threat, decide it’s an appropriate target, and potentially adjust your stance to bring it in line with the kind of firing angles you’ve practiced.

[faefux]

but please tone down the language a bit.

Yea, sorry, my bad. Was getting frustrated at the general bad faith and sideline-shittyness of the discourse. No excuse to lower myself to that level, i know.

[Caligula]

This right here. Those turrets are designed to kill intruders, including invading Chinese soldiers, apparently. Why would you ever build them like in Half-Life, with a long, loud spinup time that alerts you and lets you shoot at them?

If they are security turrets, wouldn’t you some sort of warning before they just start unloading at trespassers ?

But anyway, isn’t “realism trumps all” kinda silly ?

Sure, this game is more realistic than the average game and that’s part of the charm, but this is a game where you can get a .38 bullet to head and heal the wound with a single good night of sleep, not everything in it needs to revolve around realism.

That’s video-game silliness only appropriate for triple-A titles where they want you to win. A roguelike should not favor the player, but instead play fair and be disinterested in how well you do.

My problem always was with how banal and boring it is that in a game that has literal eldritch abominations, 9 foot tall giants and autonomous tanks gone rouge, most of my characters die from a bucket with a gun, not with the game’s overall difficulty.

I don’t find this kind of thing particularly compelling, since the ranges used for quickdraw exhibitions like this are extremely short, and if you notice the lead-up time before the gun leaves the holster the first time can be very long. I don’t consider it indicative of a real feat of reaction fire since you need to notice a threat, decide it’s an appropriate target, and potentially adjust your stance to bring it in line with the kind of firing angles you’ve practiced.

Yeah a robot perpetually on alert should probably aim and fire at you before you can fire at it, i don’t know why people focus on this.

[Mantar]

most of my characters die from a bucket with a gun

I haven’t had a character die from a turret in ages.They’re not especially dangerous provided you take care and aren’t slowed by pain or whatever.

[Hof1993]

I find that having the quick trait and good dex allow me to cap a turrent as soon as I open the door.

[kevin.granade]

But anyway, isn’t “realism trumps all” kinda silly ?

Maybe, but that’s how the game works.

My problem always was with how banal and boring it is that in a game that has literal eldritch abominations, 9 foot tall giants and autonomous tanks gone rouge, most of my characters die from a bucket with a gun, not with the game’s overall difficulty.

Sounds like you don’t sufficiently respect the danger presented by a “bucket with a gun”. Why does that get disqualified from being an interesting enemy just because you don’t think it sounds impressive enough?

[Caligula]

Maybe, but that’s how the game works.

That’s simply not true, as i said on my previous post.

Sounds like you don’t sufficiently respect the danger presented by a “bucket with a gun”.

You are right, but after killing whole cities of enemies you can hardly blame me for being cocky.

Why does that get disqualified from being an interesting enemy just because you don’t think it sounds impressive enough?

I think its pretty boring that in a post-apocalyptic game with a scenario as crazy as Cataclysm the bane of my existence is something that wouldn’t be out of place in a generic FPS, yes.

I haven’t had a character die from a turret in ages.They’re not especially dangerous provided you take care and aren’t slowed by pain or whatever.

Huh, what is it that kills most of your characters then ?

[Mantar]

Huh, what is it that kills most of your characters then ?

Early game? Usually fast aggressive stuff like Mi-Gos or zombie wildlife. Mid-game it’s usually having a screecher bring a horde around behind me to cut off my escape route or something like that. Late game it’s usually carelessness or something like a chicken walker/tank drone.
Turrets don’t chase you, so the only way to get killed is to blunder into them without enough movement points to back up a square before getting shot.

[Hof1993]

I think that it is safe to say if you like to save scum then do so. If you do not like to then don’t