Yeah, actually the Thunderbolt from Quake would fit right in. (My CoC rulebook states that Yith made lightning guns to use against the flying polyps, and the polyps are in-game…)
(Now, the Proton Pack mk 1…maybe not.)
Problem is, the lore explicitly states that energy weapons were still in early-stage development when the Cataclysm hit. However, sinice most of the military was Elsewhere, it makes sense that obsolete stuff would be around.
[quote=“Austupaio, post:18, topic:1430”]@DerpMcgee; yes, different rockets should definitely exist, but the LAW, being pre-loaded, was shipped with a certain ammunition type which I probably could have just looked up instead of posting about it but whatever.
@TheRealTenman; you’re right, with hydraulic muscles and shit I suppose the recoil is not an issue late game. However, my main point for the Pancor, BAR and M60 is that they should all be incredibly rare with the Pancor probably not even existing. This is the future, why copy old guns when they could make up new shit.
So let’s expand the topic, this is sci-fi at the end of the day, what not IRL weapons, that seem feasible for Cataclysm gameplay, do you want to see in the game?
Edit; I just thought of something, while I’m talking about the M60 being obsolete and therefore rare, especially in the future, the same goes for the LAW. The U.S. Army hasn’t used the LAW in years.[/quote]It would make some tangible sense that some people could try recreating an improved version of the Panco Jackhammer in thecfuture, possibly. Whether it would be mass produced is Word Of Lore i guess.
Also, thr liberator? I can see 3d printers making more advanced weaponry in the future but these could still be available. So adding in 3D printers and if you can power it you can make the weapon?
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01723/SNN0719A-620_1723372a.jpg
I’m not at all interested in additional gun porn; the mess of rifles, ammo types and things in the game is already more than I can be bothered remembering. But the addition of interesting weapons like distress pistols etc. would be good.
Yeah I’m with halberd. If anything, some of the weapons that don’t belong thematically should be removed, I don’t know why a 1950’s weapon like a full-auto FN FAL would be so common in the future in a country where it was never introduced in the first place. Never mind curios and relics like the American-180. Or MAC-10s, UZIs and TEC-9s for that matter.
I’d replace them with fictional, near-future weapons, if at all.
[quote=“DWC, post:24, topic:1430”]Yeah I’m with halberd. If anything, some of the weapons that don’t belong thematically should be removed, I don’t know why a 1950’s weapon like a full-auto FN FAL would be so common in the future in a country where it was never introduced in the first place. Never mind curios and relics like the American-180. Or MAC-10s, UZIs and TEC-9s for that matter.
I’d replace them with fictional, near-future weapons, if at all.[/quote]The entire reason for the painfully difficult to keep track of clusterfuck of weapons is going in is for that reason: to give trouble for people who can’t arse themselves to keep track of it all. Realistically so, if you can’t tell the differences between all the weapons and munitions then you aren’t trained in proper gun use at all in terms of owning them.
It’s a game, not a gun license test.
Edit: And I don’t think that’s the reason for the clusterfuck of weapons, either. I think it’s because there’s a large number of gamers who are into gun porn. Which is fine, if that’s what you’re into, but not everyone is, and having a dozen guns in a game that are almost identical, even down to their names, just seems pointless to someone like me.
[quote=“halberdsturgeon, post:26, topic:1430”]It’s a game, not a gun license test.
Edit: And I don’t think that’s the reason for the clusterfuck of weapons, either. I think it’s because there’s a large number of gamers who are into gun porn. Which is fine, if that’s what you’re into, but not everyone is, and having a dozen guns in a game that are almost identical, even down to their names, just seems pointless to someone like me.[/quote]Perhaps you should consider that you aren’t the only person who this game caters to? Let alone the people who similarly wouldnt bother with all these weapons, perhaps it isnt even in consideration of target audience on these terms? Nevertheless, if anyone thinks it is worth the effort new weapons will probably be added in anyway.
Perhaps you think my posts are intended as anything more than a statement of what I personally am and am not interested in seeing in the game.
This. Some people want to min/max their loadout. Some people just want something that shoots reliably. And some people don’t have any choice, they’ve gotta use what they manage to find. I imagine this will matter more if/when they add weapon degradation/maintenance.
[quote=“halberdsturgeon, post:26, topic:1430”]It’s a game, not a gun license test.
Edit: And I don’t think that’s the reason for the clusterfuck of weapons, either. I think it’s because there’s a large number of gamers who are into gun porn. Which is fine, if that’s what you’re into, but not everyone is, and having a dozen guns in a game that are almost identical, even down to their names, just seems pointless to someone like me.[/quote]
Anyone who doesn’t want to min/max their game doesn’t have to. You don’t have to play to win. Lots of roguelike players add arbitrary rules to their game for the challenge. If all the guns confuse you, make up some arbitrary rule where your character never discards a gun in favor of another chambered in the same caliber. Or, hell, make up a rule where your character hates guns and won’t touch them, period. If you don’t like the fact that minor, trivial knowledge grants an advantage to those willing to take advantage of it, maybe you shouldn’t be playing roguelikes, because that’s a very common theme among them.
Yeah, but the different models of firearms in the game are arguably not even represented accurately though. So a Remington 870 is really more powerful then a Mossberg 500 firing the same load in reality? Any meaningful difference in reliability between a Glock 19 and USP?
Firearms are just tools and they are all pretty similar within their respective functions and categories. We don’t need to clutter the universe with a thousand different guns anymore then we need to implement different models of crossbows. Nobody is going to care or know the difference between a ‘Horton Bone Collector X7 Pro Edition’ and ‘Barnett Quad 400 C7 Buck Master’. Similarly not everybody is going to care to know the difference between a Glock 17 and Glock 19.
Personally, I’d like to see generically named firearms that represent a category or range of of real life firearms. You can have a 9mm ‘service pistol’ and imagine it to be any kind of full-size 9mm handgun you like it to be and it’d be different from a ‘compact 9mm’ that represents something like a Glock 26 or ‘pocket 9mm’ for something like an LC9 and having a good stat balance between them. This seems to me like the best compromise between making it too limited and boring and making it so you have to do a google search every time your survivor goes into a gun store.
But the game is alright the way it is, it actually does model a relatively moderate range of popular and commonly available firearms you’d see in the modern day USA and makes them different enough stat-wise to be meaningful. I’m fine with it, except all the odd-ball exotic submachine guns and antiques that don’t really exist outside of hollywood or in the arsenal of some foreign military. I’d rather see them replaced with futuristic firearms or something.
You’re going out on kind of a weird limb. How does min/maxing have anything to do with this argument? Did I or anyone else complain that adding more gun variants to the game was unfair on people who don’t care about guns? Any fool capable of determining whether one number is bigger than another can look at the stats on a weapon and see which one is better - familiarity with the seventy different Kalashnikov variants has nothing to do with it. The simple fact of the matter is that people who aren’t gun nuts probably don’t care about having 8 different guns in the game that start with ‘MP5’.
As one of the gun nuts who seem to be opposing it, I actually agree.
Many of the weapons are out-dated as of 2013 and will most certainly be exceedingly rare in 2050 or whenever the game is.
More futuro guns.
You’re going out on kind of a weird limb. How does min/maxing have anything to do with this argument? Did I or anyone else complain that adding more gun variants to the game was unfair on people who don’t care about guns? Any fool capable of determining whether one number is bigger than another can look at the stats on a weapon and see which one is better - familiarity with the seventy different Kalashnikov variants has nothing to do with it. The simple fact of the matter is that people who aren’t gun nuts probably don’t care about having 8 different guns in the game that start with ‘MP5’.[/quote]
You’re very obviously complaining by taking a hostile attitude towards people who want more guns (calling their interest “gun porn” is a rude and belittling generalization). The fact that you’re posting your opinion in a suggestion thread indicates you’re trying to effect change, or at least prevent change you’re not interested in (either that, or you’re just trolling). Anything that adds non-trivial choice is a good thing, and that includes guns. Now you’ll probably say most of these suggestions are trivial choices, but that doesn’t mean all of them are. That also depends on the particular numbers these new guns are implemented with. You asked what min/maxing has to do with this? Obviously if gun choice is not trivial, there are benefits and drawbacks to each one. Min/maxing means picking your poison since you can’t have it all at once. You might think the differences are trivial, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so. Besides, they haven’t even been implemented yet, so how would you know? By the way, what’s the best gun in the game?
Are you talking about in game, or in real life? In game, the Glock has a 1/128 chance of misfiring while the USP has a 1/1024 chance. Does that reflect reality? No idea. Does it need to? It’s a meaningful choice. The Glock has more damage, faster reload, and better accuracy, offset by the 8 times greater misfire probability.
[quote=“DWC, post:30, topic:1430”]Similarly not everybody is going to care to know the difference between a Glock 17 and Glock 19.
Personally, I’d like to see generically named firearms that represent a category or range of of real life firearms.[/quote]
The differences are there to see, just by inspecting the items. You don’t need to be a soldier or a gun nut or even look it up on Wikipedia. The game tells you what each gun is good for, what it’s best at, and so on. Whether that’s enough to affect your gun choice is up to you. Would generically naming them change anything, besides the probability of a lawsuit from a firearms manufacturer?
You use your imagination to substitute visuals in a rougelike, like reading a book. The issue really with is the nomenclature of the firearms. While you or I might know exactly what a Marlin 60 is and what it and looks like, it’s going to be lost on others and a bit counter intuitive until they’ve memorized what’s what and impossible to visualize without a google search. It also sets the game up for a lot of clutter. Generic firearm names describing a class or role of firearm can represent anything in that class and are open to interpretation by the player. It also better identifies what role it fulfills.
I agree with a variety of firearms balanced against one another though, and is sort of why using real models can limit that too. If it’s a metagame thing to have nuanced and balanced firearms filling particular niche roles for player preference, then a bunch of real life gun models with boringly similar magazine capacities and everything kinda limits your options. In real life these companies all make such similar designs to directly compete with one another, like how there are now half a dozen knock-offs of the Kel-Tec P3AT or FN Five-Seven because they occupied a unique niche IRL. If you broke it down by the type of firearm then each firearm would be more distinct from one another.
I dunno, it’s just my preferences on the subject for games in general. Name dropping real life companies is kinda tacky too imo, but that’s really a non-issue. I’m writing a lot about it, but it’s fine the way it is for this game, besides the rare and exotic firearms everywhere.
You seem to be the sort of person who will put words in my mouth and make up my own arguments for me if those I present aren’t easy enough for you to poke holes in. I’m not sure whether it’s worth my time arguing with you, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt: I’m neither hostile to gun lovers nor particularly invested in whether additional guns are added to the game or not. I’m adding my opinion because I figure any coders reading the thread at least ought to realise that there are players who don’t consider the addition of more gun variants desirable.
Gun variation in Cataclysm is virtually trivial. So many of the guns within discrete categories deliver performance so similar that you can afford to select them at random, given a choice. In most cases guns are little more than a vehicle for their ammunition type.
The best gun in Cataclysm is whichever one you have a ready supply of ammunition for. Which is invariably 9mm, since turrets drop truckloads of it. Therefore you ideally want an MP5 - but again, the difference between it and other 9mm submachine guns is so minimal that I don’t notice any difference between them and don’t particularly care which one I use.
Chillieate people!
Here is the deal:
A lot of peeps want G-PRON.
A lot of peeps want less gun based jargon.
To the gun freaks:
Check out the G-proniest (or at least the best known)game of them all Jagged Alliance 2. 1.13 for more pron.
It has an option of “Tons o Guns”.
More GP than you can shake a sharp stick at…I think it has those too >.>
To the melee inclined:
Check out an armed squad based game that does it well. Jagged alliance 2. 1.13 for more items all over.
It has an option of “Reduced” arsenal.
It gives a few easy to choose guns for a few calibres. Okay and reliable, Great but finicky, Terribad but cheap.
Just use a goddamn option Gunbros, surely it’s not that hard. Don’t make me get Basement Bear™
My suggestion:
Use two calibres and two guns for each Cal for a reduced option:
Low cal
9mm:
Pistol: Glock and Beretta92.
Subs: MP5 and Tec 9
.45:
Pistol: USP.45 and some revolver.
Subs: UMP.45? and Mac 10
Mid cal
5.56:
Semi:Mini ruger and M16
Auto:M4A1 and SCAR-L
High cal
.308
Auto: FN FAL
Sniper: Savage11f
This of course makes most ammo crafting useless but it is still a good compromise.
This is of course just a suggestion and you are all welcome to go about your pointless bickering till a mod locks the thread for being non productive.
Sorry if that seems hostile 
When did this become another gun pron debate? thread WAY derailed.
As for guns I’d like to see? I have 2 from the same game that i’d love for flavor:
1st Killzone basic ISA and Helghast rifles. i LOVED the helghast weapons and the ISA had a cool assault rifle also.
a few things to correct here.
The us army currently uses the Beretta M9 which is a slightly different variant on the Beretta 92 series. if you want to know all the different models of the 92 watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aKpD4Ro8oU
the M2 Browning /could/ conceivably be carried by the player, as its /only/ a 80 pound gun. empty.
and it would be cool to see as being able to vehicle mount it, and you could find ammo at the military outposts/bunkers in bulk, but you could make it harder to get inside the bunkers / past the zombie soldiers and turrets at the outposts. and also the .50 bmg round being loud as shit.
The pancor jackhammer was never actually made, only a few prototypes (several of which were non-functioning) the rights and prototypes were all sold for a few hundred grand, but nothing ever came of it. however that’s not to say it couldn’t be a new production gun sometime before the events of cataclysm.
And on the BAR being "uncontrollable"
This is incredibly false, ive actually fired a FA Browning automatic rifle, and its probably the most controllable fullsize rifle of its kind, its very easy to keep on target with minimal practice, the reason it didn’t see huge use is because its heavy as shit, and the 1919 did the job better.
Same can be said of the m60, its controllable but it works better deployed, while still being able to shoulder fire it, maybe just requiring a high strength and firearms skill to manage it.
ALSO THE M60 is NOT obsolete, it still sees use next to the M240B just not as much,
L85A2 is a pile of shit, you don’t want it. Stove piping, double feed, the machine.
Please add the M1 Garand and when it goes empty, PING! must be displayed in text.
The FN FAL Exists, because its the right arm of the free world and its the finest modern .308 battle rifle ever made. (M1A/M14 being close second)
and deviating to a point I was going to cover later “why copy new guns when we can make new shit”-Austupaio
if it aint broke don’t fix it. and now:
a couple of names:
1894 Winchester. still made, still used.
1911. 102 years old still made. sees light service.
Ar-15 (and its variants) nearly 60 year old design still made and in service
FN FAL also about 60 years old still made and in service
AK variants. 1947-74 even in 74 it was a caliber change and new muzzle brakes. still made and in service for both.
Etc.
Also Sci-Fi spess guns suck and are forgettable. (seriously when was the last time you remembered having fun with that one sleek ipod gun that shoots blue lasers)
DW:Let’s avoid language like that shall we?
Also 7.92x57 aka 8mm mauser is not “rare” you can buy a box of 20 rounds usually for about $10 depending on loading/brand and theres still mil spec type surplus being made, because MG34 and MG42 users.
really about as rare as .30-06 and .308 (not very rare)
Really? I can say fuck n’ shit but the vaguest of insults aint cool?
I would also like to see the a .50 muzzle loader added. These have become popular in the hunting crowd recently, at least where I live. Don’t know how you would code the ammo, but I think it would be kinda cool to get stuck with “just one shot.”
