Generic Guns

Here’s a (very) rough mod I was messing around with. It replaces the hundreds of confusing guns and ammo types with a few generic ones. Instead of brand names or military designations, you might find a ‘bolt-action rifle’ and ‘rifle ammo’. The game has a similar thing for shotguns already: they all use one type of ammo, and there are generic ‘single-barrel shotguns’ etc.

I guess if you don’t care about/know about guns, it will be easier to understand what’s what. Or if you do like guns but are tired of never finding the right ammo or having to bother with hand-loading ammo, this will make things simpler. It leaves the Rivtech guns in that use their own futuristic ammo types, but anything that uses real world ammo (other than shotgun shells) is blacklisted. I also left 40mm grenades in since there is only one type of grenade anyway.!LckyBKrZ!4PnvevI3gjtNpcVNi-5luJMHBYQ4J4KuBnU-ZJ8aF-E

The main problem is that guns on turrets and vehicles are hardcoded. I made generic turrets, but it looks like their special attacks always use an mp5 9mm submg. Likewise, vehicles have mounted versions of just a few guns, so I can’t swap out their mounted guns with generic types.

Good idea and also looks like a good job (I skimmed, but didn’t read much into the jsons).
The current diverse gun set may be realistic, but makes ammo matching tiresome and pushes guns well into midgame (baring lucky ammo-matched drops).

You could override the vehicle parts for the turrets. Check blazemod/blaze_override.json. Looks like just re-declaring the turret is enough, due to how load order works (first core jsons, then mod ones).
Possibly the same thing could be done with the vehicles themselves.

Monster turrets are indeed hardcoded to use the mp5. Not much can be done about it at the moment, because we don’t have a good system for generic monster attack parameters.
The easiest workaround would be to leave the weapons in, but either remove them from item groups or override them and have them use the generic ammo, get generic names etc. Just re-declaring a new item with the id of the old one should work.

Well, I fixed the mod as it is. By looking at the blaze mod I figured out to make/switch vehicle parts. So that works. Standard ammo was changed to be special turret-only ammo,and the item groups were changed appropriately.!DMklWKrD!V2P4OXNUj14PecLxQGhaE8-pLXkyW8rqt5sLJEeHr2U

But, yeah, now that I realize you can just overwrite things instead of blacklisting/replacing everything, I’ll probably redo it to be more of a simple and cosmetic change, white-listing just a handful of guns as the standards and giving them more generic names. Like the m4a1 would be ‘assault rifle’ and the SCARh would be ‘battle rifle’.

Very cool, let us know when you’re happy with it and I’ll mainline it in a heartbeat.

While I’m not a fan of the idea of simplifying guns (I’d prefer more complexity once the current gun modification system is overhauled actually). I can understand how some people might be put off by the sheer number of various derivative gun types and they’re ammunition. It all looks good and it certainly seems like you know exactly what you want to do and how to go about doing it, I’m sure someone will really appreciate it once it’s finished.

Yeah, I don’t mind lots of guns personally, but I assume some people look at all those lists full of M14a’s and M4a1’s and M1041’s and their eyes glaze over. Once you fill a few shopping carts with guns and ammo, scrolling through it all becomes a real chore. Thankfully the game auto-highlights combos in green, which makes it a lot easier to deal with.

That part is mostly a matter of taste, but I do think loot drops cause a balance issue as well. The many types of guns and ammo tend to choke out what should be common/standard ammunition. In a typical game, I find more guns that shoot 5.56 NATO than I find stacks of 5.56 rounds. And by the time I loot enough gun stores and barracks to have a good supply of matching sets, my character has become a melee god who doesn’t really need guns anymore. So the whole playstyle / character build of being a shooty guy is made kinda pointless. (Once more NPCs are in, things may be different, but for now, it sure feels that way)

Related to that, I have a question about how item groups work. The number given to each item in the group is just its relative weight, right?

For example, say I had an item group with two items, LSD and boxers, and they were both weighted at 1 each. And I had a second group with LSD and boxers where they were weighted at 100 each. Those two groups would be functionally the same, right? And each time the game pulled an item from those it would have a 50/50 chance of getting either drugs and underwear?

That’s how I assume it works, but I just wanna make sure that it’s not something more opaque.

While doing this admirable mod might you consider addressing one issue that we currently have with guns?
Burst fire while beign quite common hasn’t found it way into Cata so far.
Havin that 3 round burst could come in handy allowing survivor to drop tougher zeds with one action without wasting a full autos worth (10) of bullets.

UMPs have 2-round burst, I believe.

That is how item groups work, yes.

OK, good. I thought there might be something I didn’t get because I kept finding item groups like this:

"type" : "item_group", "id" : "shotguns", "items":[ ["shotgun_s", 1], ["shotgun_d", 2], ["rm228", 2], ["rm120c", 1], ["l_def_12", 6], ["remington_870", 8], ["mossberg_500", 4] ]
There’s a 1 to 100 range, but everything is set so low. Items which are rare according to their descriptions/lore, like power armor or Rivtech stuff, make sense to be set that low. But then common stuff is all low balled, which then makes the rare stuff not really rare at all.

I now see why it’s so hard to match guns and ammo. There are tons of 9mm guns in the game, but 9mm ammo is only slightly more common than about 20 other varieties of bullets.

[quote=“troll from behind, post:7, topic:9911”]While doing this admirable mod might you consider addressing one issue that we currently have with guns?
Burst fire while beign quite common hasn’t found it way into Cata so far.
Havin that 3 round burst could come in handy allowing survivor to drop tougher zeds with one action without wasting a full autos worth (10) of bullets.[/quote]

I just mess with .jsons, man. You’ll have to get real coder to add another fire mode. If you want a really hack way to do it, you could add something like this to your game:

{ "type" : "GUNMOD", "id" : "short_burst_mod", "name" : "shortened burst kit", "location": "mechanism", "clip_size_modifier" : 0, "dispersion_modifier" : 0, "damage_modifier" : 0, "description" : "A thing that does that thing", "weight" : 1, "to_hit" : 0, "color" : "green", "symbol" : ":", "material" : ["steel", "null"], "mod_targets" : ["rifle","smg"], "volume" : 0, "bashing" : 0, "cutting" : 0, "burst_modifier" : -7, "price" : 100, "skill_required": 1, "loudness_modifier" : 0 }
You’d have to attach and remove it to change modes, which would probably be pretty slow.

This the mod as it stands:
It works. I don’t think there are any problems.!XdlnCbQQ!aSIbWxxisep-JO2SNW7uwd0Q-ei5w79nJhpO1vjPqvA
Basically, it’s just using standard NATO rounds that have been renamed.
9mm= pistol ammo
44mag= revolver ammo
.223/5.56= light rifle ammo
.308/7.62x51= rifle ammo
50cal= heavy rifle ammo

It should probably be placed at the beginning of the mod load order, since it doesn’t do anything important. Like if you use the vehicle additions pack, load that second, because it’s better to have some item name revert to normal than to have a vehicle part become non-functional.

I tested it with Rivtech / Leadworks stuff still enabled, and they kept things interesting. If you remove those, or if you take energy weapons, the game might seem pretty dull as there aren’t really any rare weapons in gun shops/most sites. Also, if it feels too easy to get guns, you might want to turn down your overall loot spawning… or turn up your zombie spawn rates.

I may go back and genericize military stuff like 40mm grenades, but that’s purely cosmetic since there’s only one type of grenade anyway.

I like this, thanks Sunshine.

Been playing with this in v0.C3370 - enabled it as soon as I saw it was in! The wall of mysterious gun names had be bugging me for a while, usually just ignored them rather than try and figure out what the hell a ‘Xt30x long arm wonder shot Mk3’ is, and if a 38mm.04 ammo type is equivlalent to 38.04mm lol. So my chars made bow and arrows instead…

Was worried it would make it trivial to find a matched pair, but it seems ok - just raided a gun nut’s basement and there was enough variety to keep it interesting (a bit bare, but that’s ok)

Seems good. Improves the game. Thanks for the good work :slight_smile:

Liking this a lot as far as the immersion goes.
Been bothering always a bit the single fact, that there are so many 50 years old guns still in active duty.

This should absolutely be the default. Bigger/realistic gun variation makes more sense as a mod.

This got me thinking: we don’t have much of a support for total conversions. There is no way to have a mod that bans all guns without updating it constantly to list all guns.