Welcome to the firearms lab

Game Talk The Drawing Board
1

I have a dream. One regarding firearms and crafting. Let me tell you about it.

First, an attempt at revamping gunplay as a whole. VERY open for discussion and contemplation.

[spoiler]
Small Guns - Or rather, short guns. Handguns, machine pistols and low caliber rifles. Fairly low kick, range and damage. Quick with good controllability and low weight. Things you could
feasibly fire one-handed.

Medium Guns - Submachine guns, carbines, hand cannons (heavy, high caliber handguns) and combat shotguns. All around “medium” stats. Very versatile. Two hands recommended.

Long Guns - Full sized assault, battle, sniper and civilian rifles. Shotguns. Heavy hitters. Absolutely lethal, at the cost of problematic sustained fire. Grab on to that sucker with every hand or tentacle you’ve got.

And then, three sub-skills to boot. Simple/Military/Exotics Familiarity. These rise and drop faster while the three primary skills would serve as a stronger, more difficult to master base value.
(Oh, exotics of course cover energy weapons and alike).
Not sure about the heavy weapons though. Leave them as is?[/spoiler]

As I see it, the more crafting and tinkering we get, the better. We already have disassembly so why not have… let’s guns work the same way vehicles do? Parts!
Barrels, slides, receivers, springs, cylinders, frames, hammers, triggers, uppers, lowers, grips, stocks, hand guards, rails, internal, external… BLERGH! There’s a lot, but I’m sure it’s workable with enough brain power behind it. I know I would enjoy a plethora of parts but it probably isn’t for everyone, eh? Just like with vehicles. Simplification needs to be discussed.
Item quality versus weight and rarity. (Aaaaand, maybe even durability and compatibility.)

The current weapon mods would get updated difficulty levels for installation (or uninstallation if you find a nice gun you’d like to fully disassemble). They’d attach to certain parts of the weapon rather than as a generic mod. Suppressors, muzzle brakes and alike on threaded/fitted barrels. Easy. A non-fitted civilian barrel would of course have to be modified. Not so easy. Or, if you’re lucky, find a better barrel and switch it out! Get a longer barrel while you’re at it, giving you a bit more range and accuracy at the cost of higher recoil. Can’t control the rate of fire on your new favorite toy? Open it up and modify the bolt and spring. You can do anything with the right gunsmithing knowhow and tools. Hell, crank it up to 11 and watch that barrel melt away. Oh boy!

One thing I know for certain. Barrels need to be caliber specific.

TL;DR: Guns. How do we make them more fun? Discuss, discuss, discuss.
Oh, and here’s a useful link.

2

This right here. I know that a large portion of the community (myself included) are not exactly gun experts. Sure I might be able to tell you a few of the basic parts of a gun, but anything more in-depth then that and I don’t have a clue what part you are talking about, or what type of function it might serve in the whole. It needs to be very carefully considered how to handle this, especially since we are already getting a few complaints about people having problems just dealing with complexity of the current gun system.

3

Remove weapons restrictions on the firearms mods. Silenced shotgun is the best shotgun. Automatic revolvers… Just crazy, tacticool weapons. Is it realistic? No. But fun.

4

I dont like the idea of re-doing the guns. The skills are okay, and guns are nice and simple yet effective, so I dont think this should be implemented.

5

First of all guns would need to deteriorate /get damaged so crafting another replacement for it would have value, when that get’s incorporated we need guns to drop parts from dis-assembly and gun repairs being covered by firearms but not before archery or any ranged firearm un-related to guns increase said fire-arms skills.

Then slowly creating realistic recipes for all of the guns and rare manuals/book for those antique/rare guns recipe (new potential building firearms factory?) , and then a recipe to make necessary fire arms powder and primers using chemicals (New chemicals to be added) from a manual/book then leads and casings. (perhaps a mold for a casing which you can get in gunstores/fire arm factories?)

so yeah
TL:DR

  1. Durability
    2 Disassemble producing parts
  2. Fire arms tree exclusive to guns only and allow repair/maintenance
  3. Recipe creation to cover everything
  4. Rare/Antique guns,powder,primer,lead and casing recipe to be learned from books/manuals not auto-learn
  5. Adding new items to support creation (Example gunpowder,primer chemicals, and casing molds)
  6. PROFIT!

But then again I want a new ammo type… Musket Balls! then I’m gonna make a new weapon called Blunderbuss which uses gun powder and primer for the heck of it

6

No unrealistic mods please automatic revolvers would break as soon as you burst fire them and a shotgun cannot be silenced.

7

Press r to reload, press f to fire. Press . to reduce recoil if you are missing a lot. It’s not complex at all.

8

Shotguns can be silenced if you’re firing slug. Like in No Country for Old Men. Look it up. Now, an automatic revolver is entirely within the realm of fiction, but if you just tweak the weapon modification JSON file a little, it can be done in game. Waste of damned ammo though.

9

A revolver speed loader would be nice, and actual mags to be loaded for regular fire arms. Also gun stores should carry both both boxes and cans of ammo.

10

People would just unload boxes and cans to save up on volume and weight costs. Unless the boxes and cans costed less space to carry than loose ammunition…

11

I’m referring to quantity of spawn stacks more than how it comes. Even so old school ammo cans are big and bulky but newer ones (can type) seem to help organization since they are packed efficiently, as opposed to randomly sloshing around in a bag, or in plastic bases that don’t help out with volume (referring to box ammo). Excerpt for wikipedia: The resealing ammunition box is largely a NATO tradition. Warsaw Pact nations typically stored and transported ammunition in single-use “spam cans”. They had crates that had lead lining the inside, but it was basically a bigger “spam can”.

In any case, i’m no weapons expert, just throwing out some ideas of making the game a bit more immersive/realistic.

12

I like this. (but that’s obvious)

I mentioned something like this in another thread a month or two ago, basically on things like different barrels

(IE .308 barrels threaded and unthreaded lengths from 10’’-30’’ or maybe even more, being able to swap them out, for instance you could take a FAL that normally has a 18-20 inch barrel or so, and put a say a 14 inch barrel on it a folding stock (which FAL’s sometimes have already) and building a very light yet still powerfull (at the cost of a little bit of damage and range) CQB type weapon.)

and things like the 1911 would also be very cool, also pistol stocks would be another neat thing to see. I used to work with a guy who was a Class 3 FFL (which lets him have post 86’ full autos and other NFA items) and he had built a full auto 1911 with a 7’’ compensated barrel and a stock, without the stock the gun was just about uncontrollable if you didn’t have a very good amount of experience with machine pistols and the like, but at 15-30 yards with the stock and on full auto fire it was a very effective little gun so I think this would be a very neat thing to see, different parts having different weights/effects (for instance as a effect of a folding stock the option to fold up the stock saving maybe 2 volume in your inventory)

and things like different flash hiders/muzzle brakes/compensators adding to the controllability of the weapon would be nice to see also.

ill add more when I think of it/am asked about something.

13

No unrealistic mods please automatic revolvers would break as soon as you burst fire them and a shotgun cannot be silenced.[/quote]

But that’s where your wrong!
Red jacket firearms made a suppressed Saiga 12. it can be done with just about any shotgun.

and heres a internally suppressed over under shotgun. the whole barrel is a suppressor but this does not need to be done to suppress a shotgun. (however you will need one longer than your standard Can)

COMBO!

14

I’d love to have gunsmithing in game, but it should be balanced out by making it tough to find all the tools you would need. I don’t know a whole lot about gunsmithing, only what I’ve seen on Iraqveteran8888’s youtube channel, but it seems like theres some pretty specialty tools. Maybe you could find some of what you need behind the counter at gun stores where there is currently nothing. Since they can be hard to find/get to it would take a lot of work to be able to do the sort of complex customizations ballfairy is talking about. You should also have to actually build a work bench for this kinda of high level crafting instead of just having piles of crap on the floor.

15

things like the AR-15 need a tool to take off the barrel but they can be had for next to nothing, as its a simple pattern tool that is cut into metal most gunstores will have a BOX of them and just about every single military base/outpost/etc will have a few as the armorer needs to be able to fully disassemble the AR rifle.

Edit: most tools you need for gunsmithing aren’t rare/complicated or unusual most of them are just regular tools you can buy at homedepot/ace/lowes/etc such as allen wrenches and hammers/adjustable wrenches/etc nothing that isn’t really already in CATA (except allen wrenches I think) when I went to gunsmithing school the most expensive tool I had to get was a pair of 6" calipers which cost a hair over $350 and even then that was more for fine tuning for parts (machining parts down to thousandths of a inch)
really very few guns require special tools and even then those that do are commonly available at just about every gunstore.

also just remembered something I forgot to mention different receivers made of different materials to decrease weight would be very cool also such as a polymer ar-15 lower (uncommon) or a titanium lower/upper (Ultra rare ofc since a complete real life titanium AR-15/10 costs in the market of $100,000) differing from the standard aluminum alloy receivers that you normally see. and another neat thing to see would be different AR-15 uppers (completely assembled uppers than can be disassembled for their components or attached to your already complete AR lower) that you could find in different calibers (like say you could get a 6.5 Grendel upper, while this may seem gimmicky its extremely potent and longer range to 5.56x45mm)

Also for anyone and everyone who bitches about being confused by the ammo guns use currently, your an idiot. just open your inventory (I, normally) and examine the firearm you want to use it’ll say what kind of ammo it can use, and if you cant remember you should probably just stop playing.

10mm and .40 S&W can be used in all the same guns for some reason (.40 in a 10mm autopistol doesn’t really work IRL and 10mm in a .40 wont work either, the only exception being the S&W 610 which does not require the use of a autopistol style chamber since it has a cylinder instead)
anything that says .38 can use all .38 ammo (even though .38 super is a autopistol cartridge)
.45 fmj acp, etc are all the same damn thing
.223 and 5.56 are the same damn thing.
.308/7.62x51 are the same damn thing.
anything that says .22 is the same damn thing. (even though .22 CB will not work in most .22lr firearms)

also just wondering why in gods name is .270 grouped with .30-06? on the wiki? seriously what the shit.

16

Ya I don’t really get how people get confused by the guns in general, I’ve seen people saying they don’t like the variety because of all the different names and types. If you can figure out how to play a roguelike then you should be able to examine something in your inventory. Making the system more complex, adding degradation, and reworking guns in general could help balance them I’m thinkin. Adding a more in depth system may be confusing at first for someone who’s new to guns but it makes the game more interesting and you might actually learn a thing or two.

17

Ratshot is complete shit.

I shot a cat with twelve (it was foaming at the mouth and it chased the dogs) and it was still hopping about.

18

Not everyone cares about guns and has any interest in gun minutiae. Opposition to gun fluff is more frequently borne of disinterest than ignorance. Just because some people find everything about guns fascinating doesn’t mean that everyone does.

To someone who doesn’t think their gun of choice appearing in a game is super awesome cool, being presented with three different obscure weapons that take the same ammunition and do the same thing is just wankery. Cataclysm isn’t heavily guilty of this at the moment. Many games are.

I’m not opposed to a modular weapon crafting system at all. I’d be amused to create some ridiculous custom gun. As long as it didn’t expect me to have encyclopedic knowledge of ballistics, because I’m not very interested in them. I’m not interested in cars either, but I quite like the modular car crafting system.

19

[quote=“halberdsturgeon, post:18, topic:1788”]Not everyone cares about guns and has any interest in gun minutiae. Opposition to gun fluff is more frequently borne of disinterest than ignorance. Just because some people find everything about guns fascinating doesn’t mean that everyone does.

To someone who doesn’t think their gun of choice appearing in a game is super awesome cool, being presented with three different obscure weapons that take the same ammunition and do the same thing is just wankery. Cataclysm isn’t heavily guilty of this at the moment. Many games are.

I’m not opposed to a modular weapon crafting system at all. I’d be amused to create some ridiculous custom gun. As long as it didn’t expect me to have encyclopedic knowledge of ballistics, because I’m not very interested in them. I’m not interested in cars either, but I quite like the modular car crafting system.[/quote]

This.

20

Pretty much what halberdsturgeon said.

We’re looking to find a new, easy to understand system here. Just like vehicle construction.
(What we’re NOT here to do is discuss the plausibility of silenced shotguns.)