Game too easy, armor too good?

Restarted playing from a year ago.
Like the change from dynamic to static and the new horde idea.

I easily cleared out a few hordes of hundreds of zombies.
Most of them can’t get past reinforced leather clothing, much less mid or high-end stuff.
They do zero damage, I do 40+ with a fireaxe. I just have to constantly mend my gear.

I’m guessing the formula for protection is: ((thickness2+1)Xfirst material)+((thickness+1)X2nd material)
I nerfed the protection of clothing by lowering the thickness to a max of 2 and removing some material and increasing encumbrance so I can’t layer well.
Still cake walk even with weakened leather armor in the teens, barely even noticed a hulk was hitting me, though those kung-fu using special bio-operator zombies can actually scratch me. Only danger are shock zombies since I have little protection against electricity and they can paralyze me.
Should I just wearing cotton shirts and pants and play kungfu?

Suggest rebalanced, maybe variable protection amount for armor so there is still risk from normal zombies even with best gear?

Note:The forum password retrieval system for my old login account doesn’t work so I have to create a new account.

Yes, armor is too good.

We’re looking into adding layering penalties for more than one item on the same body part & layer (so no more multi-trenchcoats or cargo pants whilst retaining 0 Encumbrance & full use of the volume).

something about bio-operators being able to "scratch" a heavily armored survivor

I built 'em to be dangerous for high-level folks. Need an upgrade? :wink:

Even with the encumbrance changes, armor still plays an overbearing role in combat. After my character finds an MBR vest (empty), I can tank hundreds of hits to the torso without it sustaining as much as a scratch, and combat becomes pretty dull as a result. Revisiting how much material thickness affects damage from combat would help with this problem.

Just wearing leather is enough to stop zombies. Don’t need to layer.
Most mobs do less than 10 bash damage. Zombie brutes do 3-24 or around 14 damage.
A leather jacket protects 12 bash damage. Reinforced should give 16.
That is not considering an outer/inner/belt and an extra kevlar vest.

something about bio-operators being able to "scratch" a heavily armored survivor

I built 'em to be dangerous for high-level folks. Need an upgrade? :wink:

He’s a weak char wearing only modded nerfed leather jacket + cloth layers.

For the time being I think I need to reduce cloth resistance to 0 and half that of all the other materials. So a single reinforced leather jacket gives 8 protection, still making me invulnerable to most mobs.

Instead of a flat protection value a variable weighted protection amount will be better.

I want what you RNG you guys got cause I always get deep torso bites. I block more hits than armor. Already believed the, “this is too good” and went to singlehandedly take a town during the day. It didn’t end well. Got away but didn’t end well. I’ll stick to luring them out 1-3 at a time.

What armor are you wearing? You should have at least 2 layers in case one gets bypassed.

I wear a home-made set of plated leather armor - it’s actually relatively easy to make and not very encumbering considering the 40 bash + cut protection. Wearing this basically makes me invincible against your average zombie.

But seriously, stuff can still kill you even if armor does seem a little overpowered. Mi-gos wreck you if you aren’t careful; same with jabberwocks. And remember, armor won’t protect you against natural causes like food + water; I still find it a challenge to feed and hydrate my needy character [who I gave high metabolism + high thirst for extra ‘fun’.]

I’m using “survivor” series stuff and Zeds can’t do me nothing.

I guess I’m just THAT unlucky, because outside of normal clothes and some coats and vests I wear 3 MBRs, superalloy, steel and something
My most often cause of death? Bleeding from the torso.

The only damage I take is from shockers shocking me and radiation damage.

Stop using mbr vests and survivor suits ya bunch of twerps.

Hordes are doing a good job on the overwhelming front. It’s not perfect, but I think that has more to do with how powerful cutting weapons are. If you face a horde in the early game when you aren’t running around with high end swords, axes, and guns they’re plenty deadly. Once they get them tuned in, they’ll be plenty dangerous. If we upped the time for weapon repairs and required access to specialized tools (repairing a Katana with a Soldering Iron? Should probably require a forge), combat would become more of a trade off - use good weapons and risk damaging them or use cheap weapons that aren’t as good but can be easily replaced.

I think the problem with armor has more to do with layering. They’ve been doing a great job with adding multiple layers that don’t interact (close layer, normal layer, belted layer), I think increasing the encumbrance penalties and the bonus encumbrance for wearing multiple items in the same layer would negate a lot of the armor issues. If heavy armor halved your attack speed and light armor consisted of a single Army Jacket, a Survivor Rig, and an undershirt, armor would be more of a trade off. Right now it’s way too easy to layer two Survivor Trenchcoats, a Survivor Rig, an Undershirt, and become basically bulletproof with no encumbrance penalty.

I think the problem is armor is too good and that there need to be harder enemies in specials to actually make them challenging, as well as make the rewards better for clearing them.

My 2 cents, I do think even simple leather armor should make you mostly immune to regular zeds, scratching and biting isn’t really that great at getting through things toougher than skin and cloth, but I do think that in general armor does too well against special zombies and sub-primes and ESPECIALLY turrets. I put on light survivor gear and suddenly I take practically zero damage from multiple turrets at once outside of a military outpost.

Well, single zombies didn’t cause me any trouble after upgrading my clothes A LOT and getting Chitinous Plate mutation(don’t remember what exact clothes i wore, but trenchcoat was one of them and i tried to have no more than 3 encumberance on any body part). Still, they had a small chance of making me bleed without directly dealing damage, small chance of breaking my armor and THEN dealing damage and when they joined forces with other zombies the chance that one of them managed to do either of those rose exponentially. Also, i never thought about normal zombies as challenging/dangerous. Shockers always managed to deal significant damage to my whole body and raise my pain by at least 20 before getting killed, whenever i saw zombears i automatically took my rifle and shot them on burst mode(they could cause lots of damage and fatal bleeding), shoggoths are still something i never managed to defeat, there is starvation, thirst, shia la beouf, eldritch horrors, unearthed horrors, amigara, and other adversaries that don’t care about what kind of OP armor i am wearing. Thus, it doesn’t bother me that much, though i guess there should be bigger penalties for body part encumberance - maybe if a character doesn’t have enough dexterity/strength it will have a chance to randomly fall down when it is too encumbered?

How do you imagine a fight with a zombie? Are they using their hands like a boxer, or just trying to bite? If the goo takes over their brain they should fight more like animals, and just try to grab and bite you. They don't grab you in the game, they just stand around you and try to bite you one at a time. The most dangerous thing of the zombie apocalypse is still missing, which is IMO being overwhelmed. Add a grab attack to zombies which slows you down 20-30-40, and boost their chance to bite you while they are grabbing into you. Make it cumulative and a small group of zombies has just become a threat.

Try biting your arm through clothes, it wouldn’t take much effort to hurt yourself. Leather, Kevlar, Metal, they are increasingly harder, but they only take more time to actually bite through. (I imagine a hulk could bite through metal) Real armor has weak spots, and a force always goes through the point with the least resistance.

One on one the average zombie should have a lot less chance to bite you, but more chance to grab into you, and if it does, from then on the zombie has the advantage. If it latches into you, the type of armor you have would only give you time before the zombie actually bit a piece of meat out of you. Armor would work like bonus hit points on the body-part. Better armor in good condition, you can sustain more damage before you are actually hurt. And when you are actually hurt, it would mean sever consequences - bleeding, infection and your injuries wouldn’t heal overnight.

Against firearms - Kevlar armor stops lower caliber bullets, but you still suffer bruises underneath. Armor with “bullet stopping power”, power would greatly decrease the damage of bullets, and would negate the more serious effects of bleeding.

You pretty damn right sir all zombies should be grabbers, and doesn’t matter what armor you’re using protecting the body joints without encumbrance is very hard except if you’re using a power suit.

Survivor armor incorporates Kevlar for a reason. I think the issue with turrets seeming underpowered versus decent armor primarily stems from the fact that turrets use incredibly crappy guns and basic 9mm ammunition. If their guns were a bit more respectable, you’d need much better armor to defend against them.

Survivor armor incorporates Kevlar for a reason. I think the issue with turrets seeming underpowered versus decent armor primarily stems from the fact that turrets use incredibly crappy guns and basic 9mm ammunition. If their guns were a bit more respectable, you’d need much better armor to defend against them.[/quote]

Exactly. To me the armor problem is more that enemies in general all have shittty attacks, many of which should receive buffs, and less that armor is op. If some enemies were just given more appropriate attacks this wouldn’t be much of a problem at all.

light survivor armor shouldn’t be able to fully protect from military grade turrets. Heavy survivor sure, maybe even standard survivor, but light is supposed to be a tradeoff of protection for mobility.

We are missing the point: If they are zombies, they bite more or less like us. ¿How much damage can be done by biting a leather jacket with thick clothes beneath? ¿How much damage can be done with teeths to militay grade nylon, steel or composite alloys?..

The objetive of the game is fun, an solutions rarely came from reductions in realism or complexity of the internal mechanics.

  • Zero damage is an abuse?
    Change the form of damage computing on the bodies. A minimun bipass in function of the armour value ever with full cover… more complex overal system as Unreal World…

  • Armour with excesive resistance?
    You can seat and drink coffe in front of a zombie if you have a full plate mail… Is worse to have a bulletproof army helmet destroyed by persistent zombie kids…

  • 5 minutes and Im an anti-zombie champ?
    Put worse criatures and make they more present. Hordes is the best idea so far for destabilization of the “farming mode” game. Factions with lead instead of theets will help too.

  • 5 years ingame and now I can clear an entire city of zombies with my full power armor, flaming katana and blasting arm with no harm?
    Well. It´s also applicable to all the towns of the word 600 years ago… The developers talk about zed getting more powerfull with time and triffid and fungus develop. It´s end-game material that will be in constant evolutión, and very VERY difficult to design a system of risk-reward and constant pressure that doesn´t turn the game impossible with enough time, but maintaining the motivation of risking for it.
    Mayor goals? Factions and strategy? Huge projects? Gaining territoy?