[quote=“John Candlebury, post:40, topic:8609”]What makes you thing that a survivor would be able to build one in a cave with only a box of scraps?[/quote]TONY STARK WAS ABLE TO BUILD THIS, IN A BOX, WITH CAVE SCRAPS.-
wait sorry nevermind
That aside, i think some designs were linked earlier in the thread, and shown that while unwieldy, allowed the wearer to lift certain heavy objects more easily. So the power system in that case isn’t too severe, considering that we have plutonium powered UPS (and cbm UPS that pretty much runs military grade power armor at barely any drain when you got the joint torsion racket and solar panels going…).
Bootleg power armor should be of nearly no help in conventional fighting, given how difficult it is to calliberate. There could however, potentially be modular functions that we install to the exterior, such as lights, a wacky chainsaw, some kind of piston that smacks something at point blank with a single jackhammer thrust for a high power relatively accurate melee attack? Funky things like those, shouldn’t be much harder to make than CBMs, right?
Oh! Bootleg powered exoskeleton mounted turrets. Now that would be quite silly but definitely appealing.
But yeah, built exoskeletons should definitely be restricted to “garage university project” levels for now, in my opinion that is, but i feel a modular system would really offer that suvivor ‘touch’ that would make it worth using.
It is like saying “The only way I coud see Guglielmo Marconi making his own radio would be if he somewhat managed to break into Alexander Stepanovich Popov’s lab or factory, somehow found the complete schematics for every single part…” and so on. Technology is not a unique achievemnt: once the concept is known - anyone can create his own implemetation of this concept.
Good thing that I have abstracted myself from emotional reactions.
Correction. We want “makeshift” power armor / exoskelletons that are doable with the ability a civilian would have 30 years in the future and with resources of entire cities laid bare before him. That changes game a little, does it not?
[quote=“KA101, post:39, topic:8609”]Previous thread, happened last month even.
Answer was that a garage exosuit (not PA, basically a lifting frame) would be extremely resource-intensive to build and fuel, with little to no benefit: cost-ineffective.[/quote]
It seem that you have suffered a Critical Research Failure.
Let’s see:
Really? Are you really think that to make something that is “gasoline-powered” is easier that to to make something that uses electricity? Where did you get such idea? Compare this and this. Which one is easier to costruct? Which one is easier to scale down, to miniaturize?
Can you elucidate how exactly this can happen? I am not sure I understand what you are implying here.
By using more efficient motors and less heavy frame and armor.
Use bionics (aka Power Armor Interfaces). It is much like old telephones that used electrical current in cable to recieve both energy and information.
From where did you get that number - 50 years? And again - once concepts are nailed correctly, it is not as difficult to build the thing itself.
Steal? Come on now, techs for PA Interfaces are freely avaiable through common books.
What makes you think that a survivor have to build one in a cave with only a box of scraps? Once again - he have resources of entire city to build it.
Then military power armor should be of nearly no help in conventional fighting as well, since it is no less difficult to calibrate. In fact, military power armor should be vastly more difficult to calibrate (much like fighter jets compared to non-military planes) and it would probably have less functional tolerances.
You keep talking about survivors having the resources of a city at their disposal.
They don’t.
They have the JUNK of a dead powerless city at their disposal. That’s a big important point.
[quote=“Muaddib, post:43, topic:8609”]You keep talking about survivors having the resources of a city at their disposal.
They don’t.
They have the JUNK of a dead powerless city at their disposal. That’s a big important point.[/quote]
It is not a “JUNK”. Look around your city once more. It is unpowered but it is almost completely intact. And for every broken part there is the same part that is intact somewhere else. That’s a big important point.
[quote=“Muaddib, post:43, topic:8609”]You keep talking about survivors having the resources of a city at their disposal.
They don’t.
They have the JUNK of a dead powerless city at their disposal. That’s a big important point.[/quote]slowly slides a box full of survivor built generators and rigged minireactors into the room
@Muadlib, it may be a good idea to not make too many abstract assumptions. Power Armor Interface may be better fit to only really work with pre-programmed power. THAT SAID, our survivor is capable of making and programming said interfaces by hand with sufficient skill…
Also, what i meant by callibrations, i mean internal pre-existing programming. Military power armor would have internal programming to work with the exact measurements of the armor, making it feasible for combat and mobility. Hand made exoskeletons would lack said perfect measurement, but could still be used to carry heavier loads and wear armor that would be nearly impossible to move in otherwise (Heavy survivor armor and upwards). Wiring up a bootleg connection to our hand-made self-programmed power armor interfaces would probably make them move significantly better than currently existing hand-controlled designs from real life.
Sorry for barging in and not reading the entire thread (I CTRL+F’d “part”), but would it be “kosher” to be able to cut down a power armor?
Sometimes you get a really shitty mutation, like webbed hands, which prevents wearing the entire power armor.
I assume the torso piece is mandatory, but you could probably keep the armor operational without gloves and boots.
A hacked together exosuit to support lifting things sounds like not power armor at all. What I’m imagining is an encumbering, lightly armored suit that limits how much you can wear (no backpacks, maybe only 2 lowest layer clothings allowed?) that makes you into a human forklift. Power armor is a self contained suit of armor that contains climate control and environmental protection while not being overly encumbering while powered. There is a giant chasm sized distinction between the two. I’m okay with players making the exosuit type deal, not so much with making the power armor.
Yes a slow-moving lifting suit would work, balancing it game-wise is pretty trivial as it would just increase move costs greatly, and do something to keep dodge/blocks from working.
Rip the arms off the power armor eh? yea that sounds feasible, and it’ll force us to fix some of the terrible hacks pa is implemented on right now.
re transcendence: our intent to add means that allow the player to transcend the environment does not imply support for any particular avenue to make that happen, there’s no contradiction is disallowing a particular approach.
re ‘in the future’: the design doc makes it clear that you do not have future capabilities at your disposal in general, there are specific high-tech items that you can use and sometimes incorporate into other things, but the default tech level is today.
invention vs implementation: the radio is based on a small set of fundamental discoveries, and is trivial to assemble if you know how. Power armor is based on innumerable interacting subsystems that have to operate in concert with the operator, and is primarally an engineering problem.
Well, it seems we are moving somewhere with that =)
No. Even modern exoskeletons are meant to be worn over (or, rather belted over) any clothing, including body armor (as demonstated with ones military experiment with). So I would say that exoskeleton itself must provide moderate defence (like metal armor) but very little coverage (like 10-20%, it is, after all, a exoskeleton) and be worn over everything (like all other belted-level items) including all variants of survivor suits, trenchcoats and so on (since it is, obviously, not providing any kind of environmental protection or climate-control).
About dodge/blocks - shouldn’t it actually depend on character’s strength? I can easily imagine character in exoskeleton that would activate “Hydraulic muscules” bionic if forced into melee with, say, zombie hulk. And simply extremely strong mutants should not have any problems with blocking and doging in it. If anything, such characters would have easier time blocking attacks when thay have such convinient hard anchoring.
Then what approach you see as allowed, that would actually lead to this transcendence?
Strange, but fine. On the other hand - if you are not going to implement specific high-tech items into battle-adapted heavy-duty exoskeleton - into what are you supposed to implement specific high-tech items then? Coffee-making? Grabs Atomic! coffemaker
Power armor with bells and whistles (climate control, environmental protection et cetera) is based on innumerable interacting subsystems that have to operate in concert with the operator. Basic idea of power armor is not. It is based on two (exactly two) interacting subsystems: locomotion and feedback.
Yes. Exactly. And the engineering question here is “How I can implement “Power Armor” concept considering the recouces I have now”. So I think this contraption should be (at basic level) far less effective than power armor, but (and this is extremely important) it should be very moddable - you created it - you know how it works and how it may be changed and upgraded.
I’m not seeing a single suit being designed and crafted by a player that can fit over a trenchcoat, rucksack, etc. It just doesn’t sound plausible at all.
I am speaking right now not about suit, but about exoskeleton, hence 10-20% covering.
What if you could craft Flashlight Armor?
About dodge/blocks - shouldn’t it actually depend on character’s strength? I can easily imagine character in exoskeleton that would activate “Hydraulic muscules” bionic if forced into melee with, say, zombie hulk. And simply extremely strong mutants should not have any problems with blocking and doging in it. If anything, such characters would have easier time blocking attacks when thay have such convinient hard anchoring.[/quote]
Nope, because modern exo-skeletons aren’t strong. They just carry a lot of weight. No one dares making a muscle-enhancing suit because no one knows how to safely enhance muscle strength without the risk of the user getting turned into a torso with no limbs after the suit malfunctions and tears off the limbs of the user.
Which also goes for extremely strong mutants. The suit just moves at a slow pace. That’s how it works, how it is programmed. I can imagine a fast exo-skeleton that has like a 15% chance every turn to break one of your limbs.
Do you mean “strong” as “durable” or “strong” as “powerful”? Anyway, they are not “strong” because currently they are not built to be strong (they are not built with intention for them to be used in zombie-apocalypse), not because it is impossible to build them so. If situation requires it - durable and powerful exoskeleton can be crafted.
And exactly for this you have power armor interface built into your body - to accurately control the exoskeleton.
I am not talking about suit, I am talking about exoskeleton (for some reason, it seems, they are becoming interchangeable in this thread). And exoskeleton does not have predetermed speed - only predetermed force output.
That is because you do not factor in the huge variability of survivors out there =) It is one thing if exoskeleton prowides as much (or more) force as you own muclules - in this case, yes it can maim you. If it provides around 15-25% force compared to your own muscules - it’s ability to maim you is no more than your ability to maim yourself by unlucky movement of your own muscules (yes, this happens. A lot. Ask power-lifters).
Fascinating.
What about actually welding/attaching bells and whistles to Power Armor?
Has to wait for clothing mods addition/gun mods overhaul.
I know but can you imagine the look on some bandits face when he hears some bells jingle and turns around to see your average high tier mutant cyborg.
Slide whistle barrel attachment.
Turns every round into a ~party~
YES.