Cataclysm: Metal Gear Solid

[LazyCat]

[quote=“Slax, post:119, topic:528”]Ok, so I’ve been playing some more and the appeal of the new system is starting to grow on me. Perhaps the lack of appropriate skill and trait (Quick draw!) integration kept me wary.
Now all I want is to see everything get migrated to the main Git stuff. Then I’d probably play this all day long.

Having to earn vehicles is a fantastic mechanic, by the way.[/quote]

Woohooo. That makes me happy. Don’t forget it was actually idea from that thread you showed me, I just made what I thought people were describing, in a most practical way I could think of, and it was up to the universe whether that would actually be even half as cool as it sounded on paper. We’ll have to hear from more people though to find out just how cool or not cool it really is, and then improve, and so on until everyone likes it.

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“Soron, post:109, topic:528”]I did. It was buggy on my platform of choice.

There was no any choice, build you tried was Windows specific. The music and sound effects were not buggy, they were completely absent from Linux compile. You could just as well tried it on a washing machine.[/quote]

The official target for the project is linux, if a feature doesn’t work on linux, it doesn’t work, and it won’t get merged.

[quote=“LazyCat, post:113, topic:528”]

I’ve got a full plate already. If you want Linux devs to look at your stuff, package a version that doesn’t have the Windows-specific changes, or at least one which has them behind #ifdefs or something.

Why would I want anyone to look at my code? I thought you would want to make your game better. Never mind then.

Because we need to look at the code to determine what it’s doing and IF it’s worth merging.

It will actually be pretty hard to get a clean merge. Try it and see if you have any luck.

Give me access to the main truck and I’ll merge it for you. I’ve already done it for myself, several times by now, and Tase did it once:

https://github.com/tasetase/DDAtase/tree/lazycat[/quote]

You can EASILY fork the project on github and make your merge, you don’t just hand out commit access to the main repository to merge features, that’s not how github works. You merge on your repo, at which point you can either make targeted pull requests for various features, or devs from other forks can pull things manually from your repo into their own (which is what’s really happening with pull requests anyway, it just automates part of it). This is how development on open projects generally works, and it’s specifically how this project works.

All you had to do was press a button when Tase merged it in his git and you could have music and sounds a month ago. It’s easy. All there is are two larger but compact blocks of code you simply copy/paste, and then there are lots of calls to playSound() function all around code which makes it a bit tedious, but it can be done in an hour or less even if you are manually copy/pasting line by line.

It’s not a matter of “just press a button” at all, because your changes were all lumped together, made changes we don’t want, and actively broke various features. In the end I couldn’t find a single thing in that code that I wanted in DDA. You might be a decent coder, but from what I can see, you’re making no effort to work with the project as a whole, and we can’t afford to waste time working with a toxic individual. If you aren’t willing to work with us to get this stuff merged, shut the hell up about things we should be doing.

And why can’t your github merge it for you, automatically? Everyone was convincing me how great it is, so what’s the problem now, why not use git and all these amazing version control tools to do what are they supposed to?

As you’ve been told several times, because you make massive unrelated changes that we don’t want.

[LazyCat]

The official target for the project is linux, if a feature doesn’t work on linux, it doesn’t work, and it won’t get merged.

Everything works on Linux, I just didn’t bother to separate Windows specific changes. What doesn’t work is your horrifically crippled Windows build, which is the first thing posted when you make a new release, and what most people are playing. I explained on page 5. how to make that work and keep compatibility with Linux in three easy steps:

http://www.cataclysmdda.com/smf/index.php?topic=541.msg10895#msg10895

You can EASILY fork the project on github and make your merge, you don't just hand out commit access to the main repository to merge features, that's not how github works. You merge on *your* repo, at which point you can either make targeted pull requests for various features, or devs from other forks can pull things manually from your repo into their own (which is what's really happening with pull requests anyway, it just automates part of it). This is how development on open projects generally works, and it's specifically how this project works.

I don’t have any problem to merge whatever I like, without any git. It’s you who has the problem despite using git, how ironic.

It's not a matter of "just press a button" at all, because your changes were all lumped together, made changes we don't want, and actively broke various features. In the end I couldn't find a single thing in that code that I wanted in DDA. You might be a decent coder, but from what I can see, you're making no effort to work with the project as a whole, and we can't afford to waste time working with a toxic individual. If you aren't willing to work with us to get this stuff merged, shut the hell up about things *we* should be doing.

I can give you the code and I’m here to explain if anything is unclear. You don’t see anything in my build you want in your game, that’s fine with me.

As you've been told several times, because you make massive unrelated changes that we don't want.

Again, is that not exactly what version control tools are for? Does your client not support so-called “cherry-pick” merging and isn’t the some option to ignore changes in tabs, new lines and white spaces?

[kevin.granade]

Yes, we’re taking a look at the refresh issue, but all accounts say it causes terrible flickering in menus, so we’re looking into addressing that, perhaps by building a bounding rect for the changes made in DrawWindow() and passing it to RedrawWindow().

[LazyCat]

Yes, we’re taking a look at the refresh issue, but all accounts say it causes terrible flickering in menus, so we’re looking into addressing that, perhaps by building a bounding rect for the changes made in DrawWindow() and passing it to RedrawWindow().

I didn’t notice any flickering, just few menus not refreshing the main screen properly after being closed. I think the fact those few menus work properly on Linux but on Windows is due to some quirk specific to those menus rather than a sign of any general incompatibility as the other 99% worked as it should.

Let me know where is the flickering so I can look at it.

[TaintedHolyWater]

Just to step back a little bit.

I’m kind of bothered you can just walk on tables and counters as if they are rags on a floor. I think it would be easier to imagine those are three-dimensional objects if there was collision like with bookcases and racks. I don’t see why would it be so easy to walk over those things, bushes and such, it’s not like you can’t go around most of the time. I like how now you have to perform extra action if you want to climb over the chain fence, I just discovered that the other day. You have to examine the chain fence to climb over it. Did you know?

To fix that problem with walking on/though tables don’t they already have the speed penalty? Thus allowing people with parkor to move unhindered while normally everyone is slowed down already. Yes, bookshelves stop you (I cant crawl over/under most bookshelves) but I don’t see a table acting as a wall. Not unless we can prop it up on it’s side.

I agree being able to climb over chain link fences is nice (makes raiding military bases a quick snatch and go) but again people can’t crawl over/under (actually often you can crawl under) a fence like you can a table. But that’s just my opinion.

Also the reason I suggested not using the scope view up close is that it seams odd to look down a scope for close shots. A scope seams like something you use for longer range marksmanship and completely ignore when your target is close enough to throw a rock at. But again, just my opinions.

[LazyCat]

To fix that problem with walking on/though tables don’t they already have the speed penalty? Thus allowing people with parkor to move unhindered while normally everyone is slowed down already. Yes, bookshelves stop you (I cant crawl over/under most bookshelves) but I don’t see a table acting as a wall. Not unless we can prop it up on it’s side.

It’s about interaction with the environment. There is speed penalty but I don’t think that’s sufficient to prevent anyone to constantly walk over tables, beds and chairs. I’m just saying there should be some kind of extra action involved, even as simple as second key press in the same direction, some feedback that makes you more aware it’s not really normal to walk on top of furniture.

Jumping over furniture or climbing on top of it like over chain fence makes it more realistic and brings in a little something extra, something a bit different. And as long as it does not make the gameplay tedious I think any such little thing makes the game more rich and interesting.

Closing/opening curtains, climbing fence, breaking windows… the more you can interact with the world the better, but just walking over table and having text message tell you it slowed you down is not interaction. It’s an opportunity for interaction, to crawl under table, hop on top counter, or hide inside a locker or a box, like in real Metal Gear game.

Also the reason I suggested not using the scope view up close is that it seams odd to look down a scope for close shots. A scope seams like something you use for longer range marksmanship and completely ignore when your target is close enough to throw a rock at. But again, just my opinions.

The challenge to acquire a target is now part of the gameplay, and narrow scope view is part of that challenge when using snipers, which is balanced out with their high precision. It’s to make using a scope more fun rather than more realistic. I don’t think this game should aim for such fine realism just for the sake of realism, only if it makes for interesting gameplay as well.

[TheRealTenman]

Sorry for the late reply…ran out of interwebs.

I was thinking to use jumping mostly for platforming puzzles like that one in the shelter.

O_O
You are kidding aren’t you? That is depressing.
Also it is easy once you see stuff…Kinda like any puzzle really. They may stall you, but once you get them you get them every time.

...Jumping and bashing and stuff, no obstacles other that smashables...

Naw…No tripping on run up? RNG is disappoint.

No, just shelters. It's very tedious to design buildings, so I'll probably just add some random roofs to houses and shops, like there are basements now, and leave it at that.

More disappoint. For shame! You fix/create something awesome and then drop it? WTH?

...Aiming bugs and misc menu...

Never mind…they magically disappeared.

There is really nothing MGS in this mod except background music and Metal Gear vehicle. Once I'm happy how everything works I'll add some missions and story line that will be loosely based on Metal Gear, but even then the gameplay will stay the same.

Music can be changed by simply replacing media files in /data/audio folder.

Okay, cool.

I love what you are doing but dislike certain things about how you do it.

Tell me more.

Shit, where to start…

1. The way you force your own opinions into things.
   It is fine that it is your branch, but damn…learn how to listen to criticism.

2. The way you respond to anything that differs from your opinion.
   Just listen to people…And actually hear them! Understand things from there side. Stop being so stubborn and rude.

3)Not working with the current upload system or other devs.
Stubbornness can be a fault at times. With you it is almost constant.(in this subject anyway)
A community project is exactly that…a community. Not you and everyone else.

4)The way you brag about things that need fixing that you have got to work. Ie windows animations.
Cool, You got windows to work, we know…If you work with the community you could get the main branch fixed too.
The whole situation is beyond me…Why can’t you work with the other devs and get it merged the proper way?

GOOD THINGS! YAY!

1)Jumping
2)Animations
3)General awesomeness that isn’t coming to mind

Have a poem:

SO FUCKING HOSTILE! SO FUCKING OBTUSE!
SO FUCKING LAZY! YOU WONT FUCKING MOVE!
YOU ARE RIDGED, STUBBORN, DEMANDING! SO MUCH TO A FAULT!
YOUR EGOCENTRIC ECCENTRICS! NEED TO FUCKING HALT!

YOU GIVE MUCH TO PLAYERS! BUT NOT TO THE GROUP!
YOUR ,FRANKLY, RETARDATION IS PUTTING ME THROUGH THE LOOP!
YOU COULD TO SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU ONLY GOT A GRIP!
THE MORAL OF THIS POEM. DON’T BE A FUCKING DICK!

I want to criticize you about being lazy but I couldn't be arsed.

Go ahead, I have explanation for everything.

So it turns out I could be arsed but it will most likely be removed for being hostile, not blunt but meaning full.
Do try to explain these…Be thorough. I will nit-pick things that you miss or dodge.

In a final note…I don’t mean to be hostile, I mean to be constructive. I just find the bad things about you infuriating.

[LazyCat]

[quote=“TheRealTenman, post:128, topic:528”]O_O
You are kidding aren’t you? That is depressing.
Also it is easy once you see stuff…Kinda like any puzzle really. They may stall you, but once you get them you get them every time.[/quote]

Call it a “secret area” then. Do you have better idea?

Shit, where to start.... 1) The way you force your own opinions into things. It is fine that it is your branch, but damn...learn how to listen to criticism.

2. The way you respond to anything that differs from your opinion.
   Just listen to people…And actually hear them! Understand things from there side. Stop being so stubborn and rude.

3)Not working with the current upload system or other devs.
Stubbornness can be a fault at times. With you it is almost constant.(in this subject anyway)
A community project is exactly that…a community. Not you and everyone else.

4)The way you brag about things that need fixing that you have got to work. Ie windows animations.
Cool, You got windows to work, we know…If you work with the community you could get the main branch fixed too.
The whole situation is beyond me…Why can’t you work with the other devs and get it merged the proper way?

That’s your problem you are having with me. I’m only interested in your opinion about the game.

[Fniff]

The thing is… You may be a good coder, but if you are completely ignoring every opposing voice that’s going to naturally cause problems. Eventually you’re going to have a bad idea, no matter how good you think you are. Having a second opinion is the best prevention against this.

[LazyCat]

The thing is… You may be a good coder, but if you are completely ignoring every opposing voice that’s going to naturally cause problems.

I don’t think I’m ignoring any comments related to game. I have my opinions and if it’s different than yours then I’ll of course argue my point and tell you about any flaws I see in your opinion, that’s what people do, it’s called conversation. I expect the same from you.

Eventually you're going to have a bad idea, no matter how good you think you are. Having a second opinion is the best prevention against this.

That’s the exact reason why I’m hanging around here - feedback. I do want to hear everyone’s opinion, just not about my person, but about the game.

[TheRealTenman]

Nice dodge :3

Any way,

Like I said previously, I like what you do. Just not how you do it.

What you do is the MGS mod. I like it. You solve many problems and bugs with windows. Most of what I have to say about it is positive.

How you do it is your attitude while you do it. But I will drop the hating…

Again…I LIKE YOUR MOD! I will try your new version.

[LazyCat]

Nice dodge :3

I already had dozen discussion about the damn git. It’s complete non-issue. Expecting of me to do something I don’t know how to do and what you can do yourself faster and better is unreasonable, especially if it’s not my concern to do it in the first place.

How you do it is your attitude while you do it.

How do you know it’s not just you lacking sense of humour?

- "And I am the Amazing Bobinsky. But you call me Mr. B, because amazing I already know that I am."
Coraline (2009)

[Mrnocamera]

I only have one gripe about this mod: every time I use a grenade, I go to throw it and it explodes in my hand, and if it dosnt then I get killed by the explosion before I can run away. DAMN YOU EXPLOSION RADIUS!

[Slax]

Throwing runs on the same system as shooting, yeah. Explosives mean YOU DEAD.

[kilozombie]

Here’s what I like about MGS and what I would like to be in the main branch:

1. Jumping
2. Multiple Z levels (but not your fucking jumping puzzle)
3. Car animations

NOTHING ELSE. I would be 100% fine and HAPPY if this were added. To me, they don’t get in the way of gameplay and are OK. Other people’s opinions might differ, so CONSIDER THAT.

[LazyCat]

I only have one gripe about this mod: every time I use a grenade, I go to throw it and it explodes in my hand, and if it dosnt then I get killed by the explosion before I can run away. DAMN YOU EXPLOSION RADIUS!

Thanks. I forgot about that. See if you can find anything else that doesn’t seem right or you think it could be done better. I’ve got new buildings working so I’ll release proper version in a few days, and by then the more bugs we find the more bugs will be fixed.

[LazyCat]

[quote=“kilozombie, post:136, topic:528”]Here’s what I like about MGS and what I would like to be in the main branch:

1. Jumping
2. Multiple Z levels (but not your fucking jumping puzzle)
3. Car animations

NOTHING ELSE. I would be 100% fine and HAPPY if this were added. To me, they don’t get in the way of gameplay and are OK. Other people’s opinions might differ, so CONSIDER THAT.[/quote]

How about rounded lights? And black darkness instead of ‘#’, like this:

[kilozombie]

You know… the lighting changes are pretty kickass too. If you could stop being stubborn about merging your git and all that, I’d love rounded lighting/darkness too.

[LazyCat]

You know… the lighting changes are pretty kickass too. If you could stop being stubborn about merging your git and all that, I’d love rounded lighting/darkness too.

Perhaps lazy, hardly stubborn. I don’t know how to do it, I’ve never done it. My inability to do it does not make me stubborn, it makes such request unreasonable. It’s like asking of monkey to lay an egg.

Look. How about you fix the bugs, and I’ll learn the git and upload your code for you? C’mon, don’t be stubborn! You see the difference? Although, funny enough, both stubbornness and inability can be interpreted as “laziness”, and so we conclude monkeys could indeed lay eggs if they only made more effort, or not. Who knows?