Cataclysm: Metal Gear Solid

I bet you would get used to in a five minutes and would not believe how could you ever play it any other way. There are more than few reasons why I think the default setting is ideal, but in any case you can change the size of both FOV and font. Edit …/data/FONTDATA file to change the font size, use option menu or edit …/data/options.txt file to change the FOV.

Try MGSmod rev.19, as rev.23b has targeting bug and is only meant to showcase above ground z-levels. Or better yet wait a few hours when I will be uploading newer version featuring sniping scope mod and “moving targets”, new feature that changes the gameplay quite a bit. See here: http://www.cataclysmdda.com/smf/index.php?topic=1052.msg12365#msg12365[/quote]

Stop being a stuck-up ponce already.

We get that you think “you would not believe you could play it any other way” but you’re fucking wrong.

Your modding is pretty good and you’re fast too.

But other people also have opinions. I, for one, dislike square font and 12x17. You should actually consider that in your modding, instead of letting your opinions completely cloud your judgement. You can’t take criticism! You can’t even comprehend somebody who thinks differently than you! You might say and pretend you do, but you CAN’T!

I wouldn’t require that you jump over but maybe have the running jump ignore the speed penalty you normally take going over a bush. Not sure if jumping currently ignores that. The logic being that I can walk through large bushes or (sometimes) jump over them as needed IRL.

Kilozombie: Can’t we just chill the jets a bit? Looking at the quote I see nothing that sounds like a stuck-up ponce. It stated a opinion and a method to change the setting should anyone want to. I call this constructive and helpful. Further the bottom bit even says “new features that [U]changes[/U] the gameplay quite a bit.” doesn’t even say it improves just changes so that’s not… you know explaining just cheapens the thought. (now that sounds like a stuck-up ponce)

That said, yes, some of lazycat’s earlier comments were rather irksome, but clearly not that one. We’re talking about a game (with quite liberal drug use) so lets all take a handful of chill pills and [B]calm the fuck down![/B]

Lazycat: I haven’t tried this yet, but it sounds like the targeting starts on you and you have to slowly shift it out to your target. Could we make the sniping view kick in after viewing so far away? Example: After aiming X squares away have it ask if you want to use the scope. Yes? Move to scope few. No? keep view where it was. Not sure how hard that would be to do.

X might be the weapons standard range before the scope or just a set number of squares.

[quote=“Slax, post:100, topic:528”]I’ve a handful of gripes already but I’ll keep it short for now.

-So, the moment you pull your gun your eyes are glued to the crosshairs. You’re forced to aim at your feet and slowly continue from there. Not really effective in a combat situation, especially since there’s SO MUCH movement going.[/quote]

It’s harder, yes, but just as effective if not more if you plan in advance and use ‘.’ pause for double precision shots. I know what you are talking about, I didn’t like it at first too, but it’s just like when you first start playing Cataclysm, you can’t survive even a day until you figure out how to play. You have to start targeting two-three turns in advance than what you normally would, predict where the monster will step and wait for them to walk on your aim rather than chasing them.

Doesn't seem to make much sense from a realistic perspective. [size=7pt]Pretty much why I came up with the target sector rectangle. See place, raise gun (f, snap to selected target area), take aim (adjust cursor to actual target in case you're off). Stats and skills come into play for precision and speed.[/size]

I think it’s very realistic and makes the gameplay more tactical, and more tense, almost like it’s in real-time. I wanted to make the game harder and more “scary”, more unforgiving, to keep you on your toes and in constant fear for your life.

Imagine in real life you have four zombies around you: left, right, in front, and behind. This new mechanics more realistically simulates this difficulty to aim at different directions. But if you play it more strategically you will try to keep all or most of the targets in the same direction from you, and then there is no much difference between old and new system except zombies will be closing in faster per shot.

-There doesn't seem to be any variation between weapon types. Aiming a handgun is just as slow as looking down a rifle scope. Oh, and scopes are effective at any range. Tried using a sniper conversion kit on a G3 and got a superb close combat weapon. Seems cooky.

Do you really aim faster with a pistol than with a bow or a rifle? Perhaps, but it doesn’t seem significant. I’ll think about it again after I play some more.

What do you mean scopes are effective at any range? This game has ASCII graphics. Even modern console games don’t do much for the scope effect but make the screen black with round opening in the middle. What else, what are suggesting could be done about it how does it matter?

Weapons have their stats as before, I haven’t changed anything about that. Range and accuracy depends on your skill and your condition too, not just weapons and ammo. How is your example with G3 any different in this version than in vanilla Cataclysm? And isn’t it realistic you would get superior weapon by attaching scope on it? Scopes are just as useful for close quarters combat as they are for ranged shots, they simply magnify and make the target appear bigger which in turn makes it easier to aim at it.

Trying to get a bead on a far away bear proved to be very amusing.

That’s what I’m talking about. It’s like some mini-game in itself. You need to guess, predict and take chances, where one wrong move can make a difference between life and death.

We may very well have different visions but right now, I don't see this working out too well. It's just too simple and straight forward. There's a lot to be done.

What do you mean simple? It’s surely more complex than point and shoot we had before, is it not? Can you be specific what exactly more needs to be done? So anyway, do you think this should be worked out, or would you prefer the old system?

I know it’s frustrating at first, it’s because you are trying to play as you are used to, but tactics and strategy need to be adjusted significantly. The more I play it the more I like it, but it was indeed very frustrating at first. Give it some more love and maybe you’ll get to like it too. And if you still hate I’ll make it optional. Thanks for the feedback.

I’m kind of bothered you can just walk on tables and counters as if they are rags on a floor. I think it would be easier to imagine those are three-dimensional objects if there was collision like with bookcases and racks. I don’t see why would it be so easy to walk over those things, bushes and such, it’s not like you can’t go around most of the time. I like how now you have to perform extra action if you want to climb over the chain fence, I just discovered that the other day. You have to examine the chain fence to climb over it. Did you know?

[b]Lazycat:[/b] I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds like the targeting starts on you and you have to slowly shift it out to your target. Could we make the sniping view kick in after viewing so far away? Example: After aiming X squares away have it ask if you want to use the scope. Yes? Move to scope few. No? keep view where it was. Not sure how hard that would be to do.

X might be the weapons standard range before the scope or just a set number of squares.

I don’t see why, what problem would that solve or why would it be better. Looking through a scope is indeed disadvantageousness in a way that you can loose fast target out of the sight or have trouble finding it in the first place due to narrow view, but I think it’s realistic disadvantage that is balanced out with extra precision when you do manage to acquire a target in your sight. It makes for its own specific gameplay, a little mini-game of sorts, which I think is important element to have for variety and to make the game more interesting.

In any case it’s too early to talk about it until tried out. I’m playing with it for the last few days and I just got used to it. At first it seemed tedious and too hard, but I’m really enjoying it now that I learned how to kill as many zombies as I could before. It’s definitively harder and requires more though and planning in advance, but whether that is good or bad thing depends on taste I guess, and if turns out everyone hates it I’ll make it an option and problem solved.

Okay.

Okay. I’m going to try to calm down.

I’m just deathly afraid that Lazycat is going to, I don’t even know… make square font default? Nothing against it, but I just… Gah. I really need to calm down. I’m having trouble accepting change at this point.

Seeing as LazyCat’s MGS mod already has square font set as the default (from the sound of things), I presume you mean you’re worried about changes happening to the mainline version? Do keep in mind that stuff has to get approved before it gets into mainline - meaning that both the idea and the implementation need to be judged suitable for inclusion in the official version. To use your specific example, square fonts are somewhat controversial, and we don’t have a way to force terminals in Unix-based systems to use a specific font or font size. We might make it easier to toggle square fonts, but I don’t expect them to be made the default in text-based modes.

And yeah, if you’re having trouble accepting change, period… chill. Most people seem to agree that Cataclysm is an awesome game with some rough edges, even if we disagree about the changes needed or the way to implement those changes.

[quote=“Soron, post:106, topic:528”]Seeing as LazyCat’s MGS mod already has square font set as the default (from the sound of things)
…[/quote]

You still haven’t tired it out?!?! It’s amazing how much just music and sound effects add to the game, you have to see it, how could you resist not to?! Once you experienced it, without musics and sound effects the game feels empty and unfinished. But what’s best you can easily add it to the main trunk and make it compatible with Linux too. It will be the best addition to the game since vehicles showed up.

Deleted.

I did. It was buggy on my platform of choice.

I’ve got a full plate already. If you want Linux devs to look at your stuff, package a version that doesn’t have the Windows-specific changes, or at least one which has them behind #ifdefs or something.

It will actually be pretty hard to get a clean merge. Try it and see if you have any luck.

Personally my Roguelikes come with no sound or music. I use my imagination, as a game like this demands, to make the experience more visceral for myself and friends when I tell them stories.

best addition to the game since vehicles- That’s a bit presumptuous don’t you think? I’d argue a revised morale system would add more depth than pop-cap sound effects. just my 2 cents.

I see you have implemented multiple z-levels in your mod. How do they work now? Is it possible to implement a multistored buildings (office towers, skyscrapers…)? Was that hard to implement that idea?

Comments: The shoot system is … different and it is difficult to get used to but it is interesting and fun.
I still do not “remember” to jump when I pursue, but slowly I am incorporating that behavior.
In hospital I found several Boomers and I’m playing with classic zombies, that’s a bug in the main branch?
It would be interesting to modify the interface to make it more narrow and does not take up much screen, is this possible?
Thanks and continue playing.

There was no any choice, build you tried was Windows specific. The music and sound effects were not buggy, they were completely absent from Linux compile. You could just as well tried it on a washing machine.

I've got a full plate already. If you want Linux devs to look at your stuff, package a version that doesn't have the Windows-specific changes, or at least one which has them behind #ifdefs or something.

Why would I want anyone to look at my code? I thought you would want to make your game better. Never mind then.

It will actually be pretty hard to get a clean merge. Try it and see if you have any luck.

Give me access to the main truck and I’ll merge it for you. I’ve already done it for myself, several times by now, and Tase did it once:

All you had to do was press a button when Tase merged it in his git and you could have music and sounds a month ago. It’s easy. All there is are two larger but compact blocks of code you simply copy/paste, and then there are lots of calls to playSound() function all around code which makes it a bit tedious, but it can be done in an hour or less even if you are manually copy/pasting line by line.

And why can’t your github merge it for you, automatically? Everyone was convincing me how great it is, so what’s the problem now, why not use git and all these amazing version control tools to do what are they supposed to?

Which is why it was weird you were berating him for not trying it when he has Linux.

As one of the devs with reliable access to all three OS’s, I did try it, and I have to say, the jumping and z-levels are pretty fun, and works fairly similar to what I’d like to see in the main game myself. Although it took my forever to figure out /how/ to jump, hah. I found the music mostly annoying.

Now, the z-levels ARE pretty buggy. Flying bears and floating corpses and whatnot. Stepping into an “airhole” made me laugh. And it’s certainly not working exactly how I’d want it to in some ways. But it’s a very good start, and an impressive first go, and none of that changes how much fun jumping around is. It’s something I know the game needs, and the idea of a ‘run up’ for longer jump distance is a great one that I very much plan on including in mainline once we get functional z-levels.

And so people liked their silent movies, before they knew better. I’m not talking about graphics, I prefer ASCII symbols over tile graphic for those same reasons, but music and sound effects are completely different thing.

Consider horror movies, how much music and even subtle sound effects matter? A lot. You can create tension and atmosphere by music alone, make action more dynamic, even invoke feelings, make suspense and scare with sound effects only. You can hear rain fall and wind blow, explosions, bullets flying around, monsters growl and break through windows. You can hear them die and hear your own pain, hear punches, kicks, smacks and whacks… providing second feedback to what is happening in the game and therefore immersing you in the whole experience deeper.

best addition to the game since vehicles- That's a bit presumptuous don't you think? I'd argue a revised morale system would add more depth than pop-cap sound effects. just my 2 cents.

I don’t think it’s presumptuous. There is hundreds of years of movie history and dozen of years in computer game history documenting wonderful ability of music and sound effects to immensely deepen experience and enjoyment of the media.

Which is why it was weird you were berating him for not trying it when he has Linux.

As one of the devs with reliable access to all three OS’s, I did try it, and I have to say, the jumping and z-levels are pretty fun, and works fairly similar to what I’d like to see in the main game myself. Although it took my forever to figure out /how/ to jump, hah. I found the music mostly annoying.

Now, the z-levels ARE pretty buggy. Flying bears and floating corpses and whatnot. Stepping into an “airhole” made me laugh. And it’s certainly not working exactly how I’d want it to in some ways. But it’s a very good start, and an impressive first go, and none of that changes how much fun jumping around is. It’s something I know the game needs, and the idea of a ‘run up’ for longer jump distance is a great one that I very much plan on including in mainline once we get functional z-levels.[/quote]

I don’t think there are any bugs except NPCs being able to walk on air, but that’s universal problem with NPCs and all the traps I think. Should be easy to fix. “Airhole” is just a trap, like “hole”, only light cyan. Maybe in the first version monsters could walk over them, I don’t remember, but that’s fine now.

I’m glad you like it, let me know if you need a hand to merge.

And so people liked their silent movies, before they knew better. I’m not talking about graphics, I prefer ASCII symbols over tile graphic for those same reasons, but music and sound effects are completely different thing.

Consider horror movies, how much music and even subtle sound effects matter? A lot. You can create tension and atmosphere by music alone, make action more dynamic, even invoke feelings, make suspense and scare with sound effects only. You can hear rain fall and wind blow, explosions, bullets flying around, monsters growl and break through windows. You can hear them die and hear your own pain, hear punches, kicks, smacks and whacks… providing second feedback to what is happening in the game and therefore immersing you in the whole experience deeper.

best addition to the game since vehicles- That's a bit presumptuous don't you think? I'd argue a revised morale system would add more depth than pop-cap sound effects. just my 2 cents.

I don’t think it’s presumptuous. There is hundreds of years of movie history and dozen of years in computer game history documenting wonderful ability of music and sound effects to immensely deepen experience and enjoyment of the media.[/quote]

Thing is, movies aren’t games. And roguelikes are not your regular games. People like different kinds of music for Cataclysm: generally soundtracks for post-apocalyptic games or bands that suit the atmosphere. Choice should always be there, and I think music would ruin that. As for sound, it would have to be implemented in a way that’s not too distracting. I generally play Cataclysm to get away from the constant movement of other videogames: just me, ten thousand (silent) zombies, and my killdozer.

[quote=“nadia911, post:112, topic:528”]Comments: The shoot system is … different and it is difficult to get used to but it is interesting and fun.
I still do not “remember” to jump when I pursue, but slowly I am incorporating that behavior.
In hospital I found several Boomers and I’m playing with classic zombies, that’s a bug in the main branch?
It would be interesting to modify the interface to make it more narrow and does not take up much screen, is this possible?
Thanks and continue playing.[/quote]

I don’t know about Boomers in hospitals. See if the main build has the same issue, maybe they already fixed it and if so I’ll fix it too.

One of the first things I wanted to do is to set play-area window to double the size and redesign the right hand side of the interface accordingly. However I wasn’t quite happy how it looks like. I felt with the bigger play-field game lost some feeling of tension, suspense and surprise. I gave up then, but I’ll reconsider it once more.

Ok, so I’ve been playing some more and the appeal of the new system is starting to grow on me. Perhaps the lack of appropriate skill and trait (Quick draw!) integration kept me wary.
Now all I want is to see everything get migrated to the main Git stuff. Then I’d probably play this all day long. :stuck_out_tongue:

Having to earn vehicles is a fantastic mechanic, by the way.

Above ground z-levels work absolutely the same as under ground z-levels. Yes, it is possible to create multi-store buildings and skyscrapers. They just need to be designed/drawn and they are ready to be in the game. It was fairly easy to get levels above ground since there is really no any difference whether a level is above or under ground, except for the sign, plus and minus. I just had to define new overmap tiles for those floors and new trap called “airhole” that when you step on it will drop you a level down like a normal hole, but it’s light cyan instead of black. Then few modification in z-layers initialization code and that was it. I explained it in more detail here, if you are interested in the code itself:

http://www.cataclysmdda.com/smf/index.php?topic=941.msg12638#msg12638