Welcome to the firearms lab

Game Talk The Drawing Board
21

For realism i would suggest the following.
Splitting guns into craftable categories: revolvers, semi/auto handguns, rifles. Each having components relevant to their category.

Revolver components:
Frame of set caliber and length, that can be recalibrated with the kits already ingame, but only to a higher caliber. Length can be cut down for weight reduction at the cost of accuracy, range and recoil. Multiple weights as well, that affect recoil and max caliber. IE: Medium frame that lowers recoil a bit and can be ported to .38 or .40. If wear and tear is implemented it could also affect overall durability based on caliber and type. (i was thinking of the frame and barrel in one revolver design, not the split design)
Cylinder of set caliber and weight, same as above. Note: with regard to durability: Cylinder should be the part of the gun that handles the most stress (since the bullet fires from here). Also a word from someone that knows the ins and outs of gun engineering would be helpful here, i’m no expert by any stretch of the imagination.
Mechanism: single or dual action, affecting accuracy and firing speed/recoil in the game. Also could be added to the firing mode selector.
Grip, mostly for bling. Various exotic materials like pearl handle, ivory and whatnot.

Handguns:
Barrel of set length, caliber and weight. Same as revolver frame.
Slide of set weight. Affects recoil and durability.
Frame of set weight and volume. Affects recoil durability and caliber. Max caliber determined by volume, cause you have to fit a mag in it.
Mechanism: semi and auto, auto being a mod of the semi (by removing a component if i understand it correctly, again someone with indepth gun knowledge needed)
Magazine of set caliber and capacity. Fits only one frame. For larger than standard mags, adds volume and weight.
Modifications possible to barrel: compensator, to decrease recoil; frame:
[ul][li]mag well, to decrease loading time[/li]
[li]stock, to increase accuracy and decrease recoil[/li][/ul]
; slide:
[ul][li]sights, affect accuracy[/li]
[li]porting, cuts weight and recoil, also makes the gun cycle faster, could be used to increase burst size in auto[/li][/ul]

Rifle:
Upper receiver: same as revolver frame
Lower receiver: same as handgun frame
Stock: modifies recoil and accuracy
Note: needs more detailed work based on rifle type: internal mag vs external, clasic vs bullpup, etc

Is this the kind of system you are looking for slax or is it a bit too involved?

22

Seems alright, CmdPrompt.

Here’s a mockup of what I’m thinking.

The inventory screen would look something like this. This is the assembled and functional weapon. Current and original values are shown. This is so your screen won’t be cluttered with every single mod you’ve done to the internal parts.
"…accepts XXX attachments" is there to signify if the weapon accepts any sort of special external mods. Different types of rails as an example. S. (short) Rail, M. (medium) Rail, L. (long) Rail. Something like that. This would also specify if your weapon accepts any sort of suppressors.
External mods would function just as they do now. Quick and easy (un)installation.

Now, in this mockup I imagine that a few things have been tinkered with. So, on to disassembly and “internal” mods. Disassembling a weapon would give you “Disassembled…” item. You examine it and an alternate set of mods and options show up.

Precision Extended .45 Pistol Barrel (measuring in inches would of course be optimal, rather than just having it say extended). +Damage, +Range, +Recoil. +Accuracy for it being a premium barrel to boot.

Extended Pistol Magazine. More rounds, longer reload time, +Weight. (Oversized magazines could also be a thing. A lot more rounds with a lot more penalties.)

S. Rail Pistol Frame Mod. +Weight? Allows you to attach certain external attachments.

There is of course a ton of room for speculation and improvement here. Everyday gun nuts will likely tell you that you can modify your gun without replacing parts, which is fine. File things down, strengthen a spring… screw it up with lack of skill! Fun to be had. But let’s keep it relatively simple for now.

Finally, the +Taclight is an example indication of what external mods your gun currently has. Activating your gun would let you toggle any such thing, as long as it’s something you can turn on/off.

There’s still a bunch of stuff missing but my brain’s fried.

23

Yeah, seems good. I was thinking of a crafting system similar to cars, get the components, have a separate crafting menu same as cars, but only one piece of each component, maybe with no restrictions for some comedy effect (say i crated a .44 cylinder with a .22 barrel by mistake and tried to fire it, i would get shattered gun in my eye and lose a finger or 5) but still you should be familiar with the firearm you are working on and have high mech skill (same as repairing an engine, 7 in mechanics + a gunsmith guide). In any case there is a lot of room for late game play here since ready assembled guns should still be available. Also leaves room for ascii art in the menu and more than a range in the back of the gun store.

24

They also change color in the pick up screen when you have compatible ammunition for a gun you found or a gun you are carrying is compatible with ammunition you found.

I wonder if these people also complain about the vehicle customization being too complex (I bet they put bicycle pedals on their trucks and wonder why the truck isn’t going fast.)

25

They also change color in the pick up screen when you have compatible ammunition for a gun you found or a gun you are carrying is compatible with ammunition you found.

I wonder if these people also complain about the vehicle customization being too complex (I bet they put bicycle pedals on their trucks and wonder why the truck isn’t going fast.)[/quote]
Right? Or not being able to put gas in an electric car in the dev builds. I mean really, with this system no one is forcing you to use it, just like the vehicle system. If you don’t want to do anything with your car aside from refueling it, then go ahead but you’re missing out on making a fifteen ton death machine. With the proposed firearm system, it’s exactly the same. If you just want to find a gun, shoot it at zombies, maybe add an already-implemented suppressor, then go ahead at the cost of making a super customized double-barreled assault rifle death machine. Nothing is forcing anyone to use either of these systems unless simply having the ability but not willingness to use them makes you feel like you are being coerced. If that is the case, it sounds like a personal problem.[quote=“gtaguy, post:17, topic:1788”]Ratshot is complete shit.

I shot a cat with twelve (it was foaming at the mouth and it chased the dogs) and it was still hopping about.[/quote]
Ratshot IS complete shit against anything tougher than rats. See this video. Note how the guy was standing no more than five feet away and the shot failed to penetrate the skin of a lemon.

Additionally this article on Wikipedia states that at three to five meters it is unlikely to penetrate a paper target. Now, shooting a cat with something like that will certainly piss it off but due to its fur will be incredibly unlikely to inflict a lethal wound. Shooting a human will likely do little more than puncture the skin slightly, if that.

26

irl the .270 winchester is based on the .30-03 case, which was replaced by the .30-06… so uhh yeah it’s a kind of convoluted thought process and doesnt really make sense

the whole ammo situation is kind of annoying and unintuitive, yeah.

that said it’s not really hard to learn. it’s just an arbitrary set of facts and the game does its best to cue you in to stuff.

on the other hand, this whole idea of creating a zillion new ways to customize guns? boring. sitting around in my shelter customizing my gun is not my idea of fun. i can do that in real life. give me more event cycles and monster stuff before more gun porn.

27

Yeah, I agree grisa. The calculations for something like this would be a bit of a bastard child of x=y times x3.8 for ammo in X holder with X length clip for timesX ammo amount and X size and length grip for +X amount of accuracy.

28

irl the .270 winchester is based on the .30-03 case, which was replaced by the .30-06… so uhh yeah it’s a kind of convoluted thought process and doesnt really make sense

the whole ammo situation is kind of annoying and unintuitive, yeah.

that said it’s not really hard to learn. it’s just an arbitrary set of facts and the game does its best to cue you in to stuff.

on the other hand, this whole idea of creating a zillion new ways to customize guns? boring. sitting around in my shelter customizing my gun is not my idea of fun. i can do that in real life. give me more event cycles and monster stuff before more gun porn.[/quote]
Yeah, the .270 thing is a bit silly. Also, do you have a problem with the vehicle porn?

29

I hardly ever fix my cars if a wheel pops or if a windshield breaks, but that doesn’t mean i don’t enjoy building my own cars. Even though it takes a lot of time and resources to mod and make, i still spend over 80-90% of the time riding in it as opposed to building. Same would apply to guns in my opinion, customize it the way you like it/make it better and spend most of the time putting rounds thru it.

30

I hardly ever fix my cars if a wheel pops or if a windshield breaks, but that doesn’t mean i don’t enjoy building my own cars. Even though it takes a lot of time and resources to mod and make, i still spend over 80-90% of the time riding in it as opposed to building. Same would apply to guns in my opinion, customize it the way you like it/make it better and spend most of the time putting rounds thru it.[/quote]
Indeed.

31

irl the .270 winchester is based on the .30-03 case, which was replaced by the .30-06… so uhh yeah it’s a kind of convoluted thought process and doesnt really make sense

the whole ammo situation is kind of annoying and unintuitive, yeah.

that said it’s not really hard to learn. it’s just an arbitrary set of facts and the game does its best to cue you in to stuff.

on the other hand, this whole idea of creating a zillion new ways to customize guns? boring. sitting around in my shelter customizing my gun is not my idea of fun. i can do that in real life. give me more event cycles and monster stuff before more gun porn.[/quote]
Yeah, the .270 thing is a bit silly. Also, do you have a problem with the vehicle porn?[/quote]

im not really into the vehicle porn either, no. for exactly the same reason: in the end, it’s all just a metal balls flying through the air killing zombies. most of the posts in the vehicle threads are the same: look at me, i built a giant car with a bunch of trunks and maybe i put spikes on the front. if i got lucky and found turrets they’re on there too.

you do get some bizarre stuff that tests the engine, like cars that are bigger than a map tile or that travel 1000+ mph, i guess.

guns are the same except you probably wouldnt even get the same cool visuals that you do by watching your car build up as you put it together or looking at it as you drove it around. a gun in your inventory looks like every other gun in your inventory.

also, cars can always be made better: faster, more cargo, more fuel efficient, etc. even when youre not fighting in it, you’re driving it around from place to place. guns… youre pretty much never going to get better than a fusion blaster cbm. you can 1-shot almost everything with sufficient skill. you press F and enter. gg. you don’t even get different visuals. if you didnt know what you were carrying, you wouldn’t even know what you shot it with.

32

If you knew what you were doing, you could probably supercharge it and blow through walls and shit.

33

I can feel a flame coming on but i’ll respond never the less.
The idea behind this thread (as far as i can tell) was to think up ways of making a crafting system for/more indepth gun customization. Same as the vehicle system, you can play the game completely ignoring it since you find ready build cars and guns about in the world.
As for cool visuals, it’s ascii, gta 1 has better visuals. Not sure about the rest of the players, but most of the gameplay happens in my imagination.

34

More gun customization wouldn’t serve a purpose right now. Nearly all the guns are extremely good at killing everything stock; changing the parts on your rifle doesn’t fulfill a purpose unless it’s important to you that your rifle be made of specific parts, above and beyond just killing things.

It’s not comparable to vehicle customization because the big house-wrecking vehicles, like them or not, are functionally improved over stock vehicles. There’s very little room for guns to improve with customization.

35

@ted
"Right now" is a very unstable thing. Anything can change at any moment when it comes to DDA, it seems. If not, there’s always the future.

@Mostly everyone else
Quit derailing the damn thread. Let’s clear this up. We’re here to create a functional system. I very much regret putting the word ‘discuss’ in the OP right now. [size=8pt]Grumble mumble…[/size]
Ideas. Designs. THE FUTURE IS NOW! HERE WE MAKE IT HAPPEN!

36

I can feel a flame coming on but i’ll respond never the less.
The idea behind this thread (as far as i can tell) was to think up ways of making a crafting system for/more indepth gun customization. Same as the vehicle system, you can play the game completely ignoring it since you find ready build cars and guns about in the world.
As for cool visuals, it’s ascii, gta 1 has better visuals. Not sure about the rest of the players, but most of the gameplay happens in my imagination.[/quote]

no flame, i just mostly meant what ted said. in terms of gameplay there just ultimately isnt going to be much difference between your tricked out custom 5.7mm autopistol and a stock glock 9mm. you press f and blow up a zombie. every so often you run into a giant zombie and things might get different then. (although i can kill a brute in melee without getting hit so query how much different it’ll really be anyway.)

i didnt really mean “graphics” or “visuals” - i was referring to the fact that your car is functionally different in the game world. you don’t “watch” it get built in graphical terms, but a car covering 5 squares across with spikes is different than a car covering 4 squares across. the guns just won’t really do that. it’s going to be a line in your inventory and things will die when you press f. that’s pretty much the long and short of it. ultimately it too just smashes zombies and houses, but it’s observably different in the game.

37

[quote=“Slax, post:35, topic:1788”]@ted
"Right now" is a very unstable thing. Anything can change at any moment when it comes to DDA, it seems. If not, there’s always the future.

@Mostly everyone else
Quit derailing the damn thread. Let’s clear this up. We’re here to create a functional system. I very much regret putting the word ‘discuss’ in the OP right now. [size=8pt]Grumble mumble…[/size]
Ideas. Designs. THE FUTURE IS NOW! HERE WE MAKE IT HAPPEN![/quote]

You can’t design a gun customization system without knowing how guns are going to work, though. If guns stay as they are, there’s no point in heavy customization because they don’t benefit much. If guns are changed, then we need to know how they’ll work before we can do a good job designing a system that alters their function.

38

As I see it, the more ideas we get out in the open, the more we’ll know what to look for in a step forward when in comes to an eventual rebalance/rethinkink of an older system.
I could of course be mistaken. I like to imagine the opposite.

39

[quote=“ted, post:37, topic:1788”][quote=“Slax, post:35, topic:1788”]@ted
"Right now" is a very unstable thing. Anything can change at any moment when it comes to DDA, it seems. If not, there’s always the future.

@Mostly everyone else
Quit derailing the damn thread. Let’s clear this up. We’re here to create a functional system. I very much regret putting the word ‘discuss’ in the OP right now. [size=8pt]Grumble mumble…[/size]
Ideas. Designs. THE FUTURE IS NOW! HERE WE MAKE IT HAPPEN![/quote]

You can’t design a gun customization system without knowing how guns are going to work, though. If guns stay as they are, there’s no point in heavy customization because they don’t benefit much. If guns are changed, then we need to know how they’ll work before we can do a good job designing a system that alters their function.[/quote]

pretty much this. the entire car analogy is completely misguided because vehicles can do 5+ different things besides kill zombies. the better analogy to vehicle construction is building construction. if someone can explain to me what a gun is supposed to do besides kill zombies i’d love to hear it. what are we going to change that is going to result in ANYTHING beyond killing zombies?

we’re going to need start with revamping the entire skill system first, anyway. as it is right now, the effect of skill level governs 95% of gun play. as long as you’re shooting something bigger than ratshot (and occasionally 9mm) you’re going to kill everything in 1 hit or so. this isn’t fallout, where plenty of enemies take numerous hits, or where guns all start out weak and then only late in the game do you find something strong. it’s not so uncommon to immediately find a high-caliber rifle in cataclysm (lmoe shelter, fema camp, chopper crash, dead military patrol, etc etc).

you’re probably going to need to revamp the combat CBMs too, since fusion blaster arm basically eclipses the entire conventional firearm side of the game, and the laser finger thing is pretty solid as well.

40

Fusion Blaster (is supposed to) permanently prevent you from ever use a bow–it replaces your off-hand–so that’s not a trivial thing.

Things guns can do, aside from “kill zeds quickly”:
Pierce armor at long ranges (I hear they can kill a Spire from outside the actual Bloom)
Hit anything you can see, allowing long-range support (once z-levels get implemented)
Fire less-lethal ammo to disable hostile NPCs without permanently injuring them (once NPCs get fixed)
Possibly let you fire unconventional things like grappling hooks (though a bow ought to be able to do that too)
Shoot whilst in a vehicle
Properly aimed, headshot anything where a headshot matters (FO2, in particular, lets all guns be good with high skill & the proper perk/sub-targeting)

That said, I don’t think messing with the firearms (and especially adding durability/maintenance) is a net improvement at thie point.