Turrets Serving Actual Purpose (or just going away)

Wally-kun · 2014-11-08T09:52:34.000Z

Automated defenses? Yes. That makes sense.

Automated defenses that are rigged out with anti-tank weaponry? Ok, uh, I guess that makes some sense, but god its annoying when I get sniped by fucking explosives across the map.

Automated defenses that are there to exclusively shoot you and only you and no one else in the world - not NPC’s, not the hordes of the undead…yeah, how about no. Not okay.

If you’re going to have insta-kill death turrets scattered around randomly waiting to pick players off that wander too close, at least give us the luxury of having them shoot EVERYTHING that isn’t supposed to be there. As it is, it’s almost like they’re on the side of the Zed’s and that just doesn’t make sense. Not to mention the fact that there is no worse feeling than doing really well and getting that message about the laser pointer on your chest and you just groan and put your head on your desk because the game just ended your run for you.

Tiny adjustment that I’m sure many people would really appreciate. That or just get rid of the bloody things. Please and thanks.

Pthalocy · 2014-11-08T09:59:00.000Z

I think the turrets are great, but then I have yet to be killed across the map by any. I’ve only come across them inside lab, and been able to immediately re-close the door on ones I discover in adjacent rooms…

I do agree, they should really shoot at more things than just the player. I expect that is on the table, and just hasn’t been prioritized yet.

Slax · 2014-11-08T10:25:52.000Z

Nighttime. Long range shotguns. Good fun.

Yeah, turret targeting was brought up recently. Seems to be on the list.

Coolthulhu · 2014-11-08T10:41:44.000Z

I agree with the no anti-tank turrets part. They should only defend important things and be supported by tons of regular turrets, possibly behind “DO NOT GO FURTHER” signs.
I’ve had a tank drone spawn next to the starting shelter.

I think strong defenses should start out neutral and only get hostile if they see an armed attacker or when someone gets close. There is no real reason why a robotank would want to blast a hobo armed with a stick with a nail.

I have an idea on how to implement that, so maybe once the feature freeze ends, I may come up with a fix.

The turrets ignoring NPCs is currently being fixed, so the post-feature-freeze versions will probably have it.

EkarusRyndren · 2014-11-08T10:57:31.000Z

It’d be nice if a sort of safe zone existed around the starting evac shelter, something that prevented any random events, good or bad, from spawning nearby so that you don’t immediately spawn in and “OH LOOK, TANK DRONE/HORDE/HOSTILE NPC WITH A SHOTGUN/MI GO ARMY/TACO BELL/WHATEVER” and your game is over on turn 1 to 5

Pthalocy · 2014-11-08T11:05:03.000Z

I learn via the corpses of my past selves, though, so a safe area, while expedient and logical, is very un-roguelike. It would also not stop awful things outside it’s range from spawning, and then wandering in. If it did, the shelter would become comically first-choice as a longterm base, by simple virtue of arbitraty safety.

Of course, roguelikes are horrible in that they put killing the player above the player having fun somedays. Such a setup would have to be very, very optional I think. And then additionally the safespace would expire after the first half of the season, say.

EkarusRyndren · 2014-11-08T11:07:02.000Z

[quote=“Pthalocy, post:6, topic:7807”]I learn via the corpses of my past selves, though, so a safe area, while expedient and logical, is very un-roguelike.

Of course, roguelikes are horrible in that they put killing the player above the player having fun somedays. Such a setup would have to be very, very optional I think.[/quote]

I just feel like it’s one thing to die because the RNG screwed you, it’s another thing to die because you spawned on a tankbot. It has yet to happen to me, and frankly if it did I’d debug kill everything in the area, but I’m pretty sure it’ll scare off new players if that regularly happens.

Pthalocy · 2014-11-08T11:08:59.000Z

To me, spawning on a tankbot IS the RNG, but I do see where you’re coming from. There’s no interaction with the thing that kills you. At least in nethack when a shitload of water moccasins spawn, it’s because you drank from the water fountain. And not because the game just has random rooms full of them for no reason and starts you in one.

…unless it does…

TheFlame52 · 2014-11-08T13:52:48.000Z

I think this merits both of my two standard suggestion responses.

It’s on the list.
If you want it, then code it yourself.

kevin.granade · 2014-11-08T18:01:20.000Z

[quote=“Wally-kun, post:1, topic:7807”]Automated defenses? Yes. That makes sense.

Automated defenses that are rigged out with anti-tank weaponry? Ok, uh, I guess that makes some sense, but god its annoying when I get sniped by fucking explosives across the map.[/quote]
It’s a simple enough scenario, they brought out regular turrets, then got overrun with tank zombies or similar, so everyone escalated to stationing antimateriel and anti-tank weaponry reprogrammed to shoot humanoids./

[quote=“Wally-kun, post:1, topic:7807”]Automated defenses that are there to exclusively shoot you and only you and no one else in the world - not NPC’s, not the hordes of the undead…yeah, how about no. Not okay.

If you’re going to have insta-kill death turrets scattered around randomly waiting to pick players off that wander too close, at least give us the luxury of having them shoot EVERYTHING that isn’t supposed to be there.[/quote]
That’s pretty reasonable, will be getting to that at some point.

Wally-kun:

Not to mention the fact that there is no worse feeling than doing really well and getting that message about the laser pointer on your chest and you just groan and put your head on your desk because the game just ended your run for you.

This has me perplexed, 99% of the time, if you see the laser dot you can just reverse course and not get shot at all, it’s the whole point of the laser dot. You can stop, look around and find the turret, and cautiously move either back into cover or directly away from the turret, and continue on your way.

Blaze · 2014-11-08T18:39:58.000Z

Maybe he’s using a vehicle? It’s impossible to stop those things and turn in time, even in a bicycle. I end up having to jump out of the moving car or else get one-shotted. Windshields don’t really help either.

KA101 · 2014-11-08T20:01:52.000Z

Antimateriel turrets: they’re there to stop desperate drivers from running the roadblock. Bots were a similar function, but then that damn software update.

Vehicle v. tankbot: HIT THE GAS. Tankbots have a tough time engaging targets going more than 60 MPH and headed either toward or away from them, and a sturdy vehicle at that speed is perfectly capable of ramming and destroying the tankbot.

New hallucination?: Taco Bell.

TheFlame52 · 2014-11-08T20:11:49.000Z

KA101:

Vehicle v. tankbot: HIT THE GAS. Tankbots have a tough time engaging targets going more than 60 MPH and headed either toward or away from them, and a sturdy vehicle at that speed is perfectly capable of ramming and destroying the tankbot.

It can either be a sturdy vehicle or one you don’t mind leaving behind. Be sure to have at least 2 tiles of impassable vehicle between you and the front of the vehicle, as a 120mm HEAT’s explosion has a radius of 2.

KA101 · 2014-11-08T20:13:49.000Z

TheFlame52:

[quote=“KA101, post:12, topic:7807”]Vehicle v. tankbot: HIT THE GAS. Tankbots have a tough time engaging targets going more than 60 MPH and headed either toward or away from them, and a sturdy vehicle at that speed is perfectly capable of ramming and destroying the tankbot.

It can either be a sturdy vehicle or one you don’t mind leaving behind. Be sure to have at least 2 tiles of impassable vehicle between you and the front of the vehicle, as a 120mm HEAT’s explosion has a radius of 2.[/quote]

Or, if you’re going fast enough, you’ll get inside the 120mm’s minimum range and force it to lock the 40mm, giving you another turn.

ryvn · 2014-11-09T07:46:35.000Z

[quote=“Pthalocy, post:8, topic:7807”]To me, spawning on a tankbot IS the RNG, but I do see where you’re coming from. There’s no interaction with the thing that kills you. At least in nethack when a shitload of water moccasins spawn, it’s because you drank from the water fountain. And not because the game just has random rooms full of them for no reason and starts you in one.

…unless it does…[/quote]

It’s possibly to die in NetHack with no interaction at all. Autopickup is on by default, for some reason, so if you start the game without editing your options file, it’s possible for a cross-aligned artifact to spawn on the same tile as you, your character automatically picks it up, it blasts you for having the wrong alignment, and you die on turn 0.

There’s even a special-case death message for it: “You are dead. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 zorkmids.”

KA101 · 2014-11-09T07:50:53.000Z

[quote=“ryvn, post:15, topic:7807”][quote=“Pthalocy, post:8, topic:7807”]To me, spawning on a tankbot IS the RNG, but I do see where you’re coming from. There’s no interaction with the thing that kills you. At least in nethack when a shitload of water moccasins spawn, it’s because you drank from the water fountain. And not because the game just has random rooms full of them for no reason and starts you in one.

…unless it does…[/quote]

It’s possibly to die in NetHack with no interaction at all. Autopickup is on by default, for some reason, so if you start the game without editing your options file, it’s possible for a cross-aligned artifact to spawn on the same tile as you, your character automatically picks it up, it blasts you for having the wrong alignment, and you die on turn 0.

There’s even a special-case death message for it: “You are dead. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 zorkmids.”[/quote]

FWIW I have never considered Nethack a good game. It’s a horribly frustrating, metagamey, bottable wreck of capture-the-flag. (Chief complaints are item-ID and stat/skill grinding; leveling being Counterproductive is a close runner-up, and RNG-dependence is a crock.)

Wally-kun · 2014-11-10T05:09:34.000Z

Blaze:

Maybe he’s using a vehicle? It’s impossible to stop those things and turn in time, even in a bicycle. I end up having to jump out of the moving car or else get one-shotted. Windshields don’t really help either.

Well I WAS on foot and the thing DID launch a missile at me…I’m pretty sure just backing up wouldn’t have fixed anything, considering it was moving forward and now towards me as I tried to back around the corner I just nosed around. Insert missile launch and multiple death screens.

Second time I’ve been just 'LOL MURDERBOT’d by having the misfortune of rounding the wrong bend. There’s really nothing you can do about it. It’s hardly fair. I mean if I had been given a chance, MAYBE, but for pete’s sake I just started the bloody game and wasn’t even halfway through my first day yet! Save some of your shit, game, jesus! Inverse difficulty curve much?

Positive this has gotten around to someone somewhere but I have this sinking feeling that the dreaded inverse difficulty curve won’t necessarily go away. I’d be pleased to be wrong.

KA101 · 2014-11-10T05:56:03.000Z

Wally-kun:

[quote=“Blaze, post:11, topic:7807”]Maybe he’s using a vehicle? It’s impossible to stop those things and turn in time, even in a bicycle. I end up having to jump out of the moving car or else get one-shotted. Windshields don’t really help either.

Well I WAS on foot and the thing DID launch a missile at me…I’m pretty sure just backing up wouldn’t have fixed anything, considering it was moving forward and now towards me as I tried to back around the corner I just nosed around. Insert missile launch and multiple death screens.

Second time I’ve been just 'LOL MURDERBOT’d by having the misfortune of rounding the wrong bend. There’s really nothing you can do about it. It’s hardly fair. I mean if I had been given a chance, MAYBE, but for pete’s sake I just started the bloody game and wasn’t even halfway through my first day yet! Save some of your shit, game, jesus! Inverse difficulty curve much?

Positive this has gotten around to someone somewhere but I have this sinking feeling that the dreaded inverse difficulty curve won’t necessarily go away. I’d be pleased to be wrong.[/quote]

I’ve heard a LOT of it. Tough part is finding both the time to sit down and slam out the move, as well as locating a good spot to put 'em with a string/feature freeze on. Might just store 'em for stable and bring 'em back out in experimental.

TheFlame52 · 2014-11-10T12:59:45.000Z

The best way to defeat a robot…

…is to make it your friend.

But you should probably let the tank bot die killing something because otherwise it will come up to you and torch you.

jokermatt999 · 2014-11-10T17:25:11.000Z

As someone introducing a few people to the game with the stable version, I think removing the tank bots for the time being would be a good idea. (Nigh) instant death turns people off, especially if it feels unfair.