Trait concepts!

I figured a thread for people to pitch their ideas for different traits would be pretty neat. Here’s a couple to get things going:

Small hands - permanent +1 (or +2) to hand encumberment. Cameras do not remove this affect - sorry Jack.

Major Depressive Disorder - occasional -50 to morale that lasts for a few days. During these periods, there is a -10 to warmth to the torso. Can use meds to temporarily remove these effects.

Pyromaniac - Boosts to morale for being near fire or throwing molotovs / using flamethrowers.

Thoughts?

[quote=“Closet Pankin, post:1, topic:7959”]I figured a thread for people to pitch their ideas for different traits would be pretty neat. Here’s a couple to get things going:

Small hands - permanent +1 (or +2) to hand encumberment. Cameras do not remove this affect - sorry Jack.

Major Depressive Disorder - occasional -50 to morale that lasts for a few days. During these periods, there is a -10 to warmth to the torso. Can use meds to temporarily remove these effects.

Pyromaniac - Boosts to morale for being near fire or throwing molotovs / using flamethrowers.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Thread already exists, it’s called “Mutation category expansion” and I use it for reminders too.

Small hands: I don’t get the reference, but I suppose it could be a starting trait?

Depressive: Nah, thanks anyway, some of us have that IRL.

Pyro: tried and failed on account of folks wanting to have it light things w/o player input. Tough to manage.

[quote=“KA101, post:2, topic:7959”][quote=“Closet Pankin, post:1, topic:7959”]I figured a thread for people to pitch their ideas for different traits would be pretty neat. Here’s a couple to get things going:

Small hands - permanent +1 (or +2) to hand encumberment. Cameras do not remove this affect - sorry Jack.

Major Depressive Disorder - occasional -50 to morale that lasts for a few days. During these periods, there is a -10 to warmth to the torso. Can use meds to temporarily remove these effects.

Pyromaniac - Boosts to morale for being near fire or throwing molotovs / using flamethrowers.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Thread already exists, it’s called “Mutation category expansion” and I use it for reminders too.

Small hands: I don’t get the reference, but I suppose it could be a starting trait?

Depressive: Nah, thanks anyway, some of us have that IRL.

Pyro: tried and failed on account of folks wanting to have it light things w/o player input. Tough to manage.[/quote]

I am depressed IRL and deal with it on a daily basis. I missed about a year of education because of it, and have about 4 months gone from memory from jumping between meds (biofeedback ftw). It’s tough, but so is having schizophrenia or mood swings. There’s some dark stuff for traits in the game already. I guess I don’t see how it being in the game would be a bad idea, but its your call.

Guess I just also dislike how a lot of media, especially games, tends to pretend depression doesn’t exist, even in really, really dark settings like Cataclysm. Makes it feel like it’s not real.

I used to be depressed. It sort of wore off eventually. I still feel neutral inside, but at least it’s better than being sad inside. Also, I barely cried at all at my grandpa’s funeral because I already caught the sadness and I have antibodies against it now.

I feel you. I partially deal with it by not letting much affect me emotionally anymore - I don’t feel as emotional to things that I really should, especially death. It’s a real part of life and I honestly don’t get why depression gets a sort of ‘you don’t exist’ when it comes to media. Is it to preserve the feelings of the depressed? Because in all honesty, even when I was coming back from being drugged out, an intense dull pain in my chest lying on the floor several years ago without any motivation to do anything, I would have preferred depression weren’t avoided by videogames as much. Seriously, vidya helped immensely in getting to a better state.

Your model is a nice and simple one that isn’t disrespectful to the real thing (though perhaps not how many experience it? I don’t know. I don’t want to make claims until I get checked for SADS by a professional. Also not the same, I would assume), but…

Actually, my only dislike for this sort of trait or flaw is in it’s gameplay value.

Point for comparison: I don’t play with chemical imbalance because it randomly throws weird conditions at me without provocation. From a gaming standpoint, having a random large morale plummet that is unavoidable and unpredictable makes for similar frustration. Now that I think about it, I don’t play with schizophrenia either for similar reasons, though that one has a medication to aid in managing it available in the game.

I like traits where the penalty or buff is constant, else reliably triggerable. That way, it takes a nice integrated place in shaping my playstyle. I feel CATA has enough RNG moments via the environment.

[quote=“Pthalocy, post:7, topic:7959”]Your model is a nice and simple one that isn’t disrespectful to the real thing (though perhaps not how many experience it? I don’t know. I don’t want to make claims until I get checked for SADS by a professional. Also not the same, I would assume), but…

Actually, my only dislike for this sort of trait or flaw is in it’s gameplay value.

Point for comparison: I don’t play with chemical imbalance because it randomly throws weird conditions at me without provocation. From a gaming standpoint, having a random large morale plummet that is unavoidable and unpredictable makes for similar frustration. Now that I think about it, I don’t play with schizophrenia either for similar reasons, though that one has a medication to aid in managing it available in the game.

I like traits where the penalty or buff is constant, else reliably triggerable. That way, it takes a nice integrated place in shaping my playstyle. I feel CATA has enough RNG moments via the environment.[/quote]

Keeping drugs/candy on hand would be useful with such a trait, I think. The -50 could be countered by smoking a joint or eating some candy - or taking antidepressants for a longer lasting solution. The -10 warmth was more of a reference to the cold chest that a lot of people with depression experience.

candies and drugs do come with their own health penalties, so I suppose this does make one’s overall wellbeing a sort of juggling act. I find my own preferences not interested in using such a trait, but I admire your argument about the invisibility of certain conditions in games/media.

I am uncertain of a solution that would truly satisfy everyone on this.

I’ve seen depression done frustratingly well in the board game Tales of the Arabian Nights, as the penalty status Grief Stricken. Made your character one level less competent at all skills, and there were only three levels (none, basic, master); get 8 points on one of the scoring tracks to lose the status. In practice, the status meant that you couldn’t feel like your character could do anything. IME that’s a fairly accurate portrayal.

My group had zero objection to my openly cheating* to avoid people getting that status, however. We were playing to enjoy ourselves, not be as powerless at the table as we sometimes felt in our daily lives.

*As in “Hmm, maybe you want to pick a different option there?” when someone opted for something that would result in Grief Stricken. The right to re-pick is generally a fairly rare bonus status, but in this case I gave it free of charge to everyone. GS was no fun, and I adhere to the Rule of Fun in my gaming.

I have no interest in writing such a trait, nor in taking it in-game. I would not enjoy merging it if someone else were to write it, but if there is actual demand, I can hit the button easily enough.

I’ll be honest and say I don’t see how having it in the game is insulting to depressed individuals. It’s like insomnia, schizophrenia, etc… all are real conditions that make survival harder.

Plus, it would absolutely still be a trait you choose at the new character screen, right? So what’s the harm in including it in the list? It would give Cataclysm another tick on its realism factor - many other games exclude things like zombie children, mental and physical health issues. Cataclysm is probably the best game I’ve seen to portray a truly dark and horrible post-apocalyptic world, far more than the second-most game.

Also I cannot tell you how happy I am that this community is as welcoming and kind as it is - seriously, if this were on a DayZ forum or something, I’d’ve gotten shot down and called a retard, kek.

[quote=“Closet Pankin, post:11, topic:7959”]I’ll be honest and say I don’t see how having it in the game is insulting to depressed individuals. It’s like insomnia, schizophrenia, etc… all are real conditions that make survival harder.

Plus, it would absolutely still be a trait you choose at the new character screen, right? So what’s the harm in including it in the list? It would give Cataclysm another tick on its realism factor - many other games exclude things like zombie children, mental and physical health issues. Cataclysm is probably the best game I’ve seen to portray a truly dark and horrible post-apocalyptic world, far more than the second-most game.

Also I cannot tell you how happy I am that this community is as welcoming and kind as it is - seriously, if this were on a DayZ forum or something, I’d’ve gotten shot down and called a retard, kek.[/quote]

I don’t consider it insulting, and apologies for allowing that interpretation. I’m more opposed because I’m not sure it’s a worthwhile addition to the game, and I know I wouldn’t use it. Chem Imbalance and Schizophrenia are both inherited from Whales-era–I didn’t write 'em.

As for welcoming, well, we try. Some issues are worse than others. :-/

[quote=“KA101, post:12, topic:7959”][quote=“Closet Pankin, post:11, topic:7959”]I’ll be honest and say I don’t see how having it in the game is insulting to depressed individuals. It’s like insomnia, schizophrenia, etc… all are real conditions that make survival harder.

Plus, it would absolutely still be a trait you choose at the new character screen, right? So what’s the harm in including it in the list? It would give Cataclysm another tick on its realism factor - many other games exclude things like zombie children, mental and physical health issues. Cataclysm is probably the best game I’ve seen to portray a truly dark and horrible post-apocalyptic world, far more than the second-most game.

Also I cannot tell you how happy I am that this community is as welcoming and kind as it is - seriously, if this were on a DayZ forum or something, I’d’ve gotten shot down and called a retard, kek.[/quote]

I don’t consider it insulting, and apologies for allowing that interpretation. I’m more opposed because I’m not sure it’s a worthwhile addition to the game, and I know I wouldn’t use it. Chem Imbalance and Schizophrenia are both inherited from Whales-era–I didn’t write 'em.

As for welcoming, well, we try. Some issues are worse than others. :-/[/quote]

It adds something worthwhile as Chemical Imbalance or Insomnia add something worthwhlie. They’re bad traits that a player can choose to try to tackle ingame. It’s another bad trait that can change how you play a character.

smal hands is as bad in terms of encumbrance as having paws then? hm mebe we should worsen the effect on that mutation first …

Maybe the encumbrance can only be when you’re wearing gloves. Would make more sense.

Woah, i did not know… you seemed such a cheery and happy person here. Don’t worry mate, don’t let that get you. You are way better.

I think it’s a cool idea, and a way good counter to Optimist.
I think this trait wuould be awesome in the way you said it, with the mood swing. But also, maybe another implementation would be (take in count that, luckily, i think i have never been that depressed. I think?) that this trait makes you always feel bad and not being able to craft unless you get antideppressants or something. That would be quite harsh though. But an interesting gameplay change?

Also, i am always a yes for RNG everything. It makes the game feel more personal and gives more opportunity for a blievable story. So a random -50 sometimes would be really cool!

I am pro traits occurring in opposing pairs. If Optimist has no counterpart (I thought bad temper was one but I have to go to class so I will check character-gen options later), then perhaps there is a place for this to work. Still not sure I’d use it, but I may not be the majority.

Woah, i did not know… you seemed such a cheery and happy person here. Don’t worry mate, don’t let that get you. You are way better.

I think it’s a cool idea, and a way good counter to Optimist.
I think this trait wuould be awesome in the way you said it, with the mood swing. But also, maybe another implementation would be (take in count that, luckily, i think i have never been that depressed. I think?) that this trait makes you always feel bad and not being able to craft unless you get antideppressants or something. That would be quite harsh though. But an interesting gameplay change?

Also, i am always a yes for RNG everything. It makes the game feel more personal and gives more opportunity for a blievable story. So a random -50 sometimes would be really cool![/quote]

It’s a facade, sadly. I try to be cheery whenever possible, the worst thing you can do is wallow. Acting cheerful and happy helps to feel better. I made a thread for it and some other traits because recently I’ve started getting more depressed and it’s something I’m trying to fight back against right now.

Though on a more related note, I was referencing Major Depressive Disorder rather than depression. It’s a constant, though weaker depression. It’s hard to explain, but when I was depressed and out of school, I had no motivation to do anything. Now though, it’s something that kind of looms over me in a sense, that comes and goes. It gives me a chill in my chest, and I definitely feel down and in the gutters - but not so bad that I can’t do things. I never want to go back to that ever again.

Again, it’s something that comes and goes, at least for me. If it were imlpemented, perhaps it can start with the notification ‘you feel a sinking cold in your chest.’

Bad temper is the counter for optimist, yes. Though I honestly can’t think of a counter to depression unless you were constantly ecstatic. Not every trait has a counter, anyway.

Yeah theres the oposite to optimist.
Moodswings are already in as well (but afaik they go both ways . never tried though )
Depression hit might be an interesting addition regardless. Though is -50 enough for a real depression? A friend of mine who got it tends to be completely useless when depressed… well maybe its just him i do not know.

Yeah theres the oposite to optimist.
Moodswings are already in as well (but afaik they go both ways . never tried though )
Depression hit might be an interesting addition regardless. Though is -50 enough for a real depression? A friend of mine who got it tends to be completely useless when depressed… well maybe its just him i do not know.[/quote]

Again, there’s a difference between depression and MDD. Depression is bad - like, no motivation to do anything bad. If it’s really bad, it’s suicidal thoughts/tenancies I-don’t-deserve-to-live bad. MDD is a longterm disorder where it doesn’t really go away permanently, but it’s not that bad. Think -50.

Also you should really support your friend. Let 'em know you care.