The more of an enemy you kill, the more efficient you are at killing them

Game Talk The Drawing Board
1

this would only work up to a point, but say you’ve already killed 40 regular zombies. at this point, maybe your melee attack or dodge is more effective somehow against these enemies? or maybe a more detailed flavor text description of an enemy after you’ve fought life and limb against a few of them?

It would be more of an ‘experience’ thing and less of a skill level increase thing.

EDIT:

I wasn’t thinking about huge amounts of increases in the first place, just a small increase to reflect RL. take TWD for example. Don’t you think that you would probably be really inefficient when SHTF? then after a while, as you killed more and more zombies, you would target more crippling areas? or with a human; you might not know right off the bat WHERE the most effective areas are so you just beat on the guy with a bat till he stops moving, but after a while, you learn where to target to do the most damage the fastest?

One could say that this is reflected in your weapon or melee skill as it rises, but I disagree. your weapon skill reflects how good you are with your chosen weapon, NOT how well you know how to fight your current enemy. and your melee skill, even with an in-game level of 5 or 6, shouldn’t let you fight a hulk for the first time and automatically fight it at the same efficiency as the 500 regular Z’s you’ve already killed and learned from.

this is maybe some way to help prevent people from being able to death-punch hulks. If their toon has no experience punching hulks, then they would likely do little to no damage in the first place, and therefore not consider it WORTH it to even try in the first place. my go to if this were the case in RL would be to run… or if I had to fight I would choose a shotty or a fire axe.

All in all, I probably didn’t explain my idea as well as I should have in the OP, but I think that this would help restore some balance to the Melee system while also adding some realism at the same time.

END EDIT:

2

Well the z are extremely poor fighters already. No need to become even stronger against them … unless we make them hardier first.
more info on them okay.

3

Not just zombies, I figured this could apply to any and all mobs. increased critical chance/damage, as well maybe

4

They are all fodder for my fists already.

5

Which is why melee needs a rework. I can sometimes get in 5 or 6 unarmed hits on a Z before he even tries to hit me. it’s crazy

6

vs a single z yeah sure.

I do not question the possibility of that.

The problem is:

Doing lethal dmg to the z of all sorts as well as to otherwordly monsters and big predator animals barehanded with average skill and low strength with punching is…
I should by all means be able to to punch a z multiple times or keep him busy in hand to hand comabt so that he may not make a move on me.
But puching him to death is a whole other thing.
While strong people may be able to do significan t dmg to the tissue of anotherhuman beeing and some may even break bones like i have seen from kickboxers… you can be sure that someone with average skill and strength is not able of such a feat.
Which means that puching a z with str 8 should not dmg it at all.
Same aplys for punching a bear for example… which should be even more resistent to blunt dmg.

7

[quote=“Valpo, post:6, topic:9073”]vs a single z yeah sure.

I do not question the possibility of that.

The problem is:

Doing lethal dmg to the z of all sorts as well as to otherwordly monsters and big predator animals barehanded with average skill and low strength with punching is…
I should by all means be able to to punch a z multiple times or keep him busy in hand to hand comabt so that he may not make a move on me.
But puching him to death is a whole other thing.
While strong people may be able to do significan t dmg to the tissue of anotherhuman beeing and some may even break bones like i have seen from kickboxers… you can be sure that someone with average skill and strength is not able of such a feat.
Which means that puching a z with str 8 should not dmg it at all.
Same aplys for punching a bear for example… which should be even more resistent to blunt dmg.[/quote]

completely agreed.

8

I do mildly like this idea, but we shouldn’t have +60% to crit or anything, instead it should be when we [E] over them we learn more about them etc…

But, I do like to critical…

9

With melee-level dexterity (14 or more), you should be getting more crits than non-crits by the time you get 3 melee skill.
This is quite annoying when unarmed, because it makes brawling knock back the zeds. Still, makes wrecking hulks barehanded very easy.

10

With melee-level dexterity (14 or more), you should be getting more crits than non-crits by the time you get 3 melee skill.
This is quite annoying when unarmed, because it makes brawling knock back the zeds. Still, makes wrecking hulks barehanded very easy.[/quote]

Point optimization is a path to the Bored Side. :frowning:

11

[quote author=KA101 link=topic=9734.msg225445#msg225445 date=1425688972]

With melee-level dexterity (14 or more), you should be getting more crits than non-crits by the time you get 3 melee skill.
This is quite annoying when unarmed, because it makes brawling knock back the zeds. Still, makes wrecking hulks barehanded very easy.

Point optimization is a path to the Bored Side. :-([/quote]

agreed.

I wasn’t thinking about huge amounts of increases in the first place, just a small increase to reflect RL. take TWD for example. Don’t you think that you would probably be really inefficient when SHTF? then after a while, as you killed more and more zombies, you would target more crippling areas? or with a human; you might not know right off the bat WHERE the most effective areas are so you just beat on the guy with a bat till he stops moving, but after a while, you learn where to target to do the most damage the fastest?

One could say that this is reflected in your weapon or melee skill as it rises, but I disagree. your weapon skill reflects how good you are with your chosen weapon, NOT how well you know how to fight your current enemy. and your melee skill, even with an in-game level of 5 or 6, shouldn’t let you fight a hulk for the first time and automatically fight it at the same efficiency as the 500 regular Z’s you’ve already killed and learned from.

this is maybe some way to help prevent people from being able to death-punch hulks. If their toon has no experience punching hulks, then they would likely do little to no damage in the first place, and therefore not consider it WORTH it to even try in the first place. my go to if this were the case in RL would be to run… or if I had to fight I would choose a shotty or a fire axe.

All in all, I probably didn’t explain my idea as well as I should have in the OP, but I think that this would help restore some balance to the Melee system while also adding some realism at the same time.

EDITED OP btw.

12

Well realisticly thinking a regular human will never be able to punch a hulk to death not even with experience in doing so which he ll proly not survive aquiering.

13

well… no. but realism can only come SO far in a game with mutations, cybernetics and zombie mooses

14

yes it goes as far as logic goes. Even in a setting where the dead walk the land and cyborgs run arround a regular human is still a regular human. I reject your objection .

15

Think we had a little misunderstanding there. I agree that he probably wouldn’t survive the experience, which is why he probably wouldn’t try in the first place, thereby preventing any kind of experience gain.

I don’t do coding, or game design or anything like that, so I don’t have any clue what the best way would be to rework the melee system to prevent spoons, fists, and bags of sugar from becoming ‘exhibit A’. just hoping my ramblings might spark an idea in someone who DOES have that knowledge. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

16

A noble cause .

I would suggets simply upping the blunt resist of pretty much every enemy. Some more then others.
Then let enemies like bears and hulks do more dmg.
remove the melee effect of size completely and let it only aply to aiming with guns/bows and throwing.
Add new options in melee to get out of combat as oposed to killing the opponent.
Add fatigue. Add sprinting.

17

ehh… works for me

18

Lack of cut resist is far worse - grab a combat knife and you’ll see what I mean. It’s even better than bare hands (unlike most bashing weapons, which suffer from the very low damage cap and low scaling).

19

That may be so. But foremost my stance is to at least reach a realistic behaviour of enemies.
And cutting up works pretty well against humaoids irl so i have no objection.
Human skin is very easy to cut. Thus so is zomby skin. Unless we have some special zombies with hardened skin or spceial equipment theres no reason imo to give them cutting resist.
bears and other larger animals having some resistance to cuting is okay though.

However maybe we should balance out short weapons somewhat and make it so enemies that we attack them with are more likely to hit us as well to show that your going into hand to hand combat as oposed to swinging a sword or such at a zomby from a relatively safe distance.

20

Well being able to kill monsters better by studying them is pretty cool. Maybe be able to discover soft spots (like x fears fire, y is really weak to stab and resistent to bash). One thing I’d like is a fatigue system for melee. I can shoot a fair bit of bullets without tiring. But fighting with a sword or, worse, a unbalanced object is really tiring. Especially since, from what I understood, the lore says that these zombies throw punches, kicks, bites, so they fight like humans in a way.
Usually when I do fencing with a rapier, after 5minutes my right arm (I’m right handed) is phisically incapable of keeping the tip of the blade pointed to the enemy: it just goes down. I’m fairly new to fencing (2 years) so experienced fencers can of course fight for half an hour, but still you need a lot of practice.

Yesterday I cleared a whole mall with a katana in a day. I think to balance melee really fatigue is important. Then the OP suggestion can come into place, since in melee you can’t really fight more than a couple dozen of enemies without resting, then precise strikes and knowledge of the enemy could really give you the edge.

[quote=“Valpo, post:19, topic:9073”]That may be so. But foremost my stance is to at least reach a realistic behaviour of enemies.
And cutting up works pretty well against humaoids irl so i have no objection.
Human skin is very easy to cut. Thus so is zomby skin. Unless we have some special zombies with hardened skin or spceial equipment theres no reason imo to give them cutting resist.
bears and other larger animals having some resistance to cuting is okay though.

However maybe we should balance out short weapons somewhat and make it so enemies that we attack them with are more likely to hit us as well to show that your going into hand to hand combat as oposed to swinging a sword or such at a zomby from a relatively safe distance.[/quote]

I also wanted to add that usually in sword fight the prize (in the times being alive) is usually given to the guy that can stab the enemy more times. In reinassance texts we usually read that cutting is to make the enemy furious and hotheaded, while stabbing him is to make him cool again (cool for the last time in his life) The human body is pretty resilient to cutting, more than we imagine, and so I was pretty amazed when I’ve found that stabbing weapons in this game are not really effective. If I had to fight a zombie, which I wanted to keep at distance and kill in as little time as possible and with as little effort as possible, in case I don’t have a nuclear bomb or a pistol, I’d probably favor a spear and a knife.
Now the problem is, since I’m not really solid on the lore, how do you really kill a zombie? You smash his brain, like in the mainstream zombie lore? If that is the case, then, I’d reinforce my choice of a spear and knife. Spear to kill at distance and knife to defend from the zombies that manage to overwhelm the spear.