This does to lead to the question as to how a compentently-quilted (or otherwise layered sheet) made of clothing-quality leather stacks up (pun intended) to a monolithic sheet of leather, of the same thickness.
That said, a distinction like that might be best reserved for a general fleshing-out of tailoring as a whole. As I thought I’d mentioned before.
On a related subject. The game should start in the summer so you do not freeze to death in the beginning. It is silly and boring to start a game like this with a bunch of tailoring. (I always change to summer start).
It was not that encumbering.
It is pretty darn loud though x).
[quote=“Random_dragon, post:41, topic:10931”]This does to lead to the question as to how a compentently-quilted (or otherwise layered sheet) made of clothing-quality leather stacks up (pun intended) to a monolithic sheet of leather, of the same thickness.
That said, a distinction like that might be best reserved for a general fleshing-out of tailoring as a whole. As I thought I’d mentioned before.[/quote]
Small edit after re-reading what you wrote. I may be misinterpreting what you mean here, so I kept the first reply.
So you are asking, how a perfectly tailored designer garment compares to a hard “armor” variant of same thickness?
Well…I’d say you could easily avoid minor bash; minor to heavy scrapes; low to medium acid(in game acid of course); low fire(subjective though to what kind, camp or explosive?); none to low regarding bullets/arrows/direct knifing.
Encumbrance, should be about a 1-5 depending on the item
Just my opinion depending on what item specific of course and there are always exceptions to the rule and cross over items that may mix parts.
In regard to hard leather? I’d say bump every soft leather item by 2-5 in armor and keep the encumbrance about the same as it is without the distinction (typically 10-15 via the upgrade, not including any other upgrade)
I should also note, that these values/number figures are on base items, NOT “(Fits)”.
Fitting/“Fits” option of any garment should decrease the encumbrance when upgraded in this manor, with zero encumbrance being plausible for certain items such as fingerless gloves/elbow pads; in short, items that are made not to impede to begin with.
Loose items(NOT “fits”) would encumber, but fitting an item should allow better movement(lower encumbrance) as is the point of tailoring the item to fit. =)
First reply, below.
As a matter of fact, a person crafting leather can choose between soft or hard leather(not in game, but in real life). Both being of the same thickness. Leather is interesting when making it. The crafter can choose a process in which the skin can be hard as over starched denim, but retains that hard "armor" aspect or choose to make it soft and malleable with a lower aversion to damage compared to that of hard variant.
The details of leather crafting is freely available on the internet and a few ways in which to craft it. =D
In terms of what would be needed in game? Well, while using a tailoring/sewing kit, the option of:
Soft Leather Upgrade --> small damage resistance/low encumbrance (designer clothing items and soft player made leather).
Hard Leather Upgrade --> decent armor upgrade/medium to high encumbrance (biker jackets;excluding dusters & trench coats unless a leather variant is put in game. / boots and player made hard leather)
^^(in parenthesis are examples not all in game items of course)facepalms I’m referring specifically to the material being used to make the item, not the garment as a whole. It would logically be awkward trying to quilt multiple thin layers of leather, but if the end result would be similar to the performance of a similarly-constructed garment made using thicker leather in place of a layered material, then differentiating the two materials is less essential.
facepalms I’m referring specifically to the material being used to make the item, not the garment as a whole. It would logically be awkward trying to quilt multiple thin layers of leather, but if the end result would be similar to the performance of a similarly-constructed garment made using thicker leather in place of a layered material, then differentiating the two materials is less essential.[/quote]
Erm…oooookk, I’m still confused. I mean I think I understand. but it could go in different ways of thinking here.
Um, anyway, I’m not suggesting we say Soft is layered at all. 1 layer of soft would give enough protection to avoid a lot of minor damage, especially in regard to abrasion, without encumbering the character.
Hard leather would be treated as 1 layer, except the fact that it is hard make it considered as armor more so than soft. Hard option could also have items whereby it is assumed more than 1 layer. But I don’t view the “1 piece of leather” in game now as being layers specifically. It COULD be, but doesn’t mean that it is exactly. Example, 4 pieces of leather for 1 upgrade doesn’t necessarily mean 4 sheets of leather. Just the amount need to tailor with, scraps are left behind as I see it.
Right. Still, I can see what you’re saying, but there are additionally other tailoring oddities that could be dealt with too, and some that might confer a greater sense of realism and/or have more potential gameplay uses than this.
And separate from all these issues, the issue of enhancing low-encumbrance items resulting in disproportionately high encumbrance penalties would be higher on my priority list XP
Think I covered this? =D
I’m not sure at the moment(not having thought much on it) what should come first though if they work on this at all.
I mean…should determining soft/hard leather come before each item encumbrance being balanced? They already have material thickness and I wonder what would make more sense first.
Questions I have on this specific topic:
1-
Because material thickness already exists, wouldn’t it be easier to ad soft/hard tailor upgrade function before encumbrance?
or
2-
Would it make more sense to just tweak all item encumbrance now before such a feature would be added? Caveat; this could skew balance further…or strengthen balance perhaps, due to making each item make more sens individually in regards to tailor upgrades. Maybe even not make it necessary at all to have a soft/hard distinction?
I dunno…Maybe it comes down to a measure of more detail and even balance over slap a band aid on things. I’m inclined to favor my idea for distinction. But if they adjust each item for individual encumbrance being balanced to make more sense…it could be almost the same thing for the time being.
But I really do believe that the soft/hard distinction would benefit the game in the long run much better for balance purposes. Just my thoughts as usual. You folks?
Has anyone played a similar roguelike called Angband? It’s a classic dungeon crawler for pc that isn’t as deep or broad as cataclysm, but in my opinion it is a very good example of a classic dungeon roguelike, and it has significantly more armor distinctions than cata, including soft and hard leather armors, which pretty neatly sum up this idea of encumbrance vs protection, such that hard leather armors provide more encumbrance as well as more protection, and they are more valuable than the less dense, lighter, but higher volume soft leather armors.
This could be something to consider for adding into cata, if hard leather could be obtained from pre-cataclysm sources such as clothes, armors, and whatnot, and soft leathers could be primarily taken from animal skins, and weaker pre-cataclysm clothes.
I also just wanted to say that I noticed the change in encumbrance that is being discussed here before I saw the post and I had a similar reaction, such that I was disappointed that the benefits of reinforcing armors were nerfed, but this was more as a player in the game world and less as a normal person considering the reality of the situation. I agree that perhaps it was too beneficial to reinforce armors in previous versions, but I think that in this version it defeats its own purpose because there isn’t really a reason to do it anymore, because of the insanely high penalties to encumbrance, and by the time that a player can reach a melee skill high enough to negate the penalties of encumbrance in combat, the player will likely have found better armor in the world anyways.
I would appreciate it if the encumbrance/protection changes with reinforcement were slightly… more balanced, and less detrimental to the early game character, but I can’t say that I wish this because it is more realistic, just that I think it would be a more reasonable condition for the kind of mid-game character that’s going to have the skill and resources to reinforce, who have not found better armor, and who does not necessarily have the kind of combat skills for the current reinforcement system to be worthwhile presently.
Why even have it in the game if it’s not helpful for the kind of character that’s going to have the resources to reinforce items, and have not found a better armor? It just seems like an unnecessary feature if it isn’t helpful for most characters, which it seems to be intended to be, and not mostly a detriment.
Everyone would react differently if such an event occurred. After a acquiring a few basic things to keep me alive, I know I would be very keen on making some sort of clothing to protect me from bites and the like. I’d be tearing apart anything leather and rawhide for base materials to make something a little more sturdy.
As I have tailoring skill sets in real life perhaps I am a little more passionate about this skill. But I know other folks, like the idea. Heres hoping for these changes =D
(casual reminder and hope more people take an interest in this)
Generally curious if the devs have anything in mind about making the difference of Soft and Hard leather?
That plus changing the values of upgrades?
Anything being talked about behind the scenes?
I know there was a snaffoo regarding the amount of thread being used. But I’ve not tested experimentals in a while to debate this(till today).