[Suggestion] More Enemies that are actually dangerous

[pisskop]

I dont think you should. But, you could give them some small amount of armor_acid. On the gounds that they aren’t touching the ground with most their body.

[Random_dragon]

Hmm, maybe. Wait, we have an armor_acid property? o.O

[pisskop]

Si. And a fire armor. And all three physical damage types too.

[Random_dragon]

Clever. Interesring. Giving them acid resistance instead of acid proof then.

[Litppunk]

Seems like adding some sort of flag/tag to make creatures prioritize threats/victims differently might be the best way to make some of these changes more meaningful. For example: Today I went over to some turrets that had been working over a group of reviving zeds for about 2 days. Despite the turrets being out of ammo the zeds continued to prioritize non-flesh close turret over the far away arrow firing me despite the turrets being out of ammo and not ACTUALLY doing damage. Until I got within 2 spaces, still further from them than the turret, I am ok with this and think it is good balance…for early game.

Creatures should behave much the same way, but to a greater degree. Wasps, snakes and other “zombified-proof” animals, and especially zombifiable animals should go out of their way to avoid zombies rather than fighting them. I don’t think even a hungry wolf would go after a nasty rotten zombie, but a living flesh player? bonapeteit.
Exceptions: territorial moose, and mother bears etc… type cases.

Zombies should pointedly ignore non-flesh/food creatures that don’t make a lot of noise to draw them. Especially late game. Think of it as the blob-consciousness evolving into something that realizes that fighting that random turret blockade is a waste of time. Or preferring to hunt live/and or dead creatures over attacking non-hosts.

As is you guys seem to be doing a lot of “how can we make them dangerous to us, but not too each other”… which seems like an impossible task, given that we tend to Armour and armory better than anything in the game. Rather I think end game it should be more you& allies vs the now starving and better stronger faster world than when you started. Bandits are now more practiced, various portal groups have dumped the cannon folder out of the way, and are now sending in the lords/guards and fierce fighting groups, the blob has evolved to be smarter faster and stronger, and only the strongest of the animals remain… mostly hungry carnivores that have made it this far by picking only fights with potential food…such as you.

[Random_dragon]

Seems like adding some sort of flag/tag to make creatures prioritize threats/victims differently might be the best way to make some of these changes more meaningful. For example: Today I went over to some turrets that had been working over a group of reviving zeds for about 2 days. Despite the turrets being out of ammo the zeds continued to prioritize non-flesh close turret over the far away arrow firing me despite the turrets being out of ammo and not ACTUALLY doing damage. Until I got within 2 spaces, still further from them than the turret, I am ok with this and think it is good balance…for early game.

But Gustav is the best pet in the entire Cataclysm. Fear his deadly beeps and boops.

[Litppunk]

All creatures should “retaliate” or attack another creature that is targeting them… or allies. But late game I think there should be something of a “pecking order” that the creatures know and respect where possible… if only to make it harder for the player.

[kevin.granade]

The simplest thing would be an aggro system where they prioritize whatever is doing more damage, though its an open question whether a zombie should be aware enough to know who is shooting them.

[Coolthulhu]

The simplest thing would be an aggro system where they prioritize whatever is doing more damage, though its an open question whether a zombie should be aware enough to know who is shooting them.

Not exactly the simplest, I’m afraid. Unless we’re talking about some rough global scoreboard.
I’ve been meaning to implement some sort of a dynamic hostility thing, but the problems like lack of persistent creature ID and performance sensitivity of planning phase make it harder than it sounds like at first.

[pisskop]

Ideally critters would have a ‘hate’ level towards any critter/faction.

From there they would mix and match their aggression/morale/distance until they had a target. perhaps a ‘friend-sympathy’ where they are more likely to target critters attacking their friends, thus helping them out.

And finally they could take into account the reason for attacking. i.e. ‘territory’, ‘hunger’, ‘defense’, ‘aggression’, or ‘skittish’. Each contribuiting their own modifiers to the above.

In theory. Im just rambling.

[Random_dragon]

perhaps a ‘friend-sympathy’ where they are more likely to target critters attacking their friends, thus helping them out.

There is an AI trigger for friends being attacked, which seems to be defined as creatures of the same faction as the creature being aggro’d, though there might be a friendly faction relation option as well, possibly (need to double-check the factions file).

Though assuming anger triggers aren’t dropped entirely in the event of a more fleshed-out aggro system, it would logically mesh well with that idea. X3

[Litppunk]

well whatever the end solution I think revamping the AI for aggression and targeting selection would make all other balancing fall into place a little better. It will be something of an uphill battle getting the AI revamped but should make all the other balancing much more meaningful once it is out of the way.

[kevin.granade]

I meant a very local and short term aggro system where they target the enemy that has damaged them the most recently. Point taken though that the reference part is tricky at best.

[pisskop]

[spoiler=Infected Survivor]

{
“type” : “MONSTER”,
“id” : “mon_furvivor”,
“name”: “infected survivor”,
“species”:“MAMMAL”,
“default_faction”:"",
“symbol”:"@",
“color”:“ltred”,
“size”:“MEDIUM”,
“material”:“flesh”,
“diff”:10,
“aggression”:3,
“morale”:60,
“speed”:100,
“melee_skill”:6,
“melee_dice”:2,
“melee_dice_sides”:6,
“melee_cut”:10,
“dodge”:4,
“armor_bash”:7,
“armor_cut”:7,
“armor_stab”:3,
“armor_acid”:1,
“vision_day”:50,
“vision_night”:2,
“death_drops”: {
“subtype”: “collection”,
“groups”: [
[ “furvivor_glock”, 90 ]
]
},
“hp”:95,
“death_function”:[“NORMAL”],
“special_attacks”:[
[“SHRIEK”, 60],
{
“type” : “bite”,
“cooldown” : 30,
“min_mul” : 1.0
},
[“GRAB”, 12],
{
“type” : “gun”,
“cooldown” : 2,
“gun_type” : “glock_19”,
“ammo_type” : “9mm”,
“max_ammo” : 1000,
“fake_str” : 11,
“fake_dex” : 7,
“fake_per” : 5,
“fake_skills” : [[“gun”, 3], [“pistol”, 3]],
“move_cost” : 100,
“targeting_cost” : 50,
“range” : 13,
“description” : “The infected survivor fire wildly!”,
“targeting_sound” : “incoherent gibberish!”,
“targeting_volume” : 15,
“no_ammo_sound” : “a chk!”
}
],
“starting_ammo” : {“9mm”: 16},
“description”:“A survivor of the apocolypse, this individual has succumbbed to the mycus, paranoia, and incoherency. Unpredicable and terminally-ill, they will not respond to any attempts to communicate. You can’t help but notice they still wear their armor and holster . . .”,
“flags”:[“SEES”, “HEARS”, “SMELLS”, “WARM”, “BASHES”, “GROUP_BASH”, “POISON”, “HUMAN”, “LEATHER”, “FAT”, “BONES”, “PUSH_MON”],
“anger_triggers”:[“HURT”, “FRIEND_DIED”, “PLAYER_WEAK”, “FIRE”, “PLAYER_CLOSE”],
“placate_triggers”:[“SOUND”, “FRIEND_ATTACKED”]
},[/spoiler]

I have zero clue if he could be considered a midgame critter or not. Im reluctent to add guns to monsters. On death he currently drops tattered survivor crap and 1-2 of a redlining glock/magizine/9mmjhp[50]

Id appreciate some thoughts on a creature that should be dealing 15-25 damage via range

[Random_dragon]

[quote=“pisskop, post:154, topic:11207”][spoiler=Infected Survivor]

{
“type” : “MONSTER”,
“id” : “mon_furvivor”,
“name”: “infected survivor”,
“species”:“MAMMAL”,
“default_faction”:"",
“symbol”:"@",
“color”:“ltred”,
“size”:“MEDIUM”,
“material”:“flesh”,
“diff”:10,
“aggression”:3,
“morale”:60,
“speed”:100,
“melee_skill”:6,
“melee_dice”:2,
“melee_dice_sides”:6,
“melee_cut”:10,
“dodge”:4,
“armor_bash”:7,
“armor_cut”:7,
“armor_stab”:3,
“armor_acid”:1,
“vision_day”:50,
“vision_night”:2,
“death_drops”: {
“subtype”: “collection”,
“groups”: [
[ “furvivor_glock”, 90 ]
]
},
“hp”:95,
“death_function”:[“NORMAL”],
“special_attacks”:[
[“SHRIEK”, 60],
{
“type” : “bite”,
“cooldown” : 30,
“min_mul” : 1.0
},
[“GRAB”, 12],
{
“type” : “gun”,
“cooldown” : 2,
“gun_type” : “glock_19”,
“ammo_type” : “9mm”,
“max_ammo” : 1000,
“fake_str” : 11,
“fake_dex” : 7,
“fake_per” : 5,
“fake_skills” : [[“gun”, 3], [“pistol”, 3]],
“move_cost” : 100,
“targeting_cost” : 50,
“range” : 13,
“description” : “The infected survivor fire wildly!”,
“targeting_sound” : “incoherent gibberish!”,
“targeting_volume” : 15,
“no_ammo_sound” : “a chk!”
}
],
“starting_ammo” : {“9mm”: 16},
“description”:“A survivor of the apocolypse, this individual has succumbbed to the mycus, paranoia, and incoherency. Unpredicable and terminally-ill, they will not respond to any attempts to communicate. You can’t help but notice they still wear their armor and holster . . .”,
“flags”:[“SEES”, “HEARS”, “SMELLS”, “WARM”, “BASHES”, “GROUP_BASH”, “POISON”, “HUMAN”, “LEATHER”, “FAT”, “BONES”, “PUSH_MON”],
“anger_triggers”:[“HURT”, “FRIEND_DIED”, “PLAYER_WEAK”, “FIRE”, “PLAYER_CLOSE”],
“placate_triggers”:[“SOUND”, “FRIEND_ATTACKED”]
},[/spoiler]

I have zero clue if he could be considered a midgame critter or not. Im reluctent to add guns to monsters. On death he currently drops tattered survivor crap and 1-2 of a redlining glock/magizine/9mmjhp[50]

Id appreciate some thoughts on a creature that should be dealing 15-25 damage via range[/quote]

Succumbed to the Mycus, but no spores?

[pisskop]

meh, its supposed to be a light infection. an excuse to add a human monster. its actually hostile to fungus; without a faction itll hurt anything that isnt explicitly ‘vermin’.

Did you know, btw, that the FUNGUS death effect does stack :v

"death_function":["FUNGUS", "FUNGUS", "FUNGUS", "FUNGUS", "FUNGUS", "DISINTEGRATE", "SMOKEBURST"],
"special_attacks":[["LUNGE", 3], ["SUICIDE", 90], ["SHRIEK", 15], ["FUNGUS", 45]],

[Logrin]

Why not marloss men?

[pisskop]

Why not marloss men?

http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=12051.msg266061#msg266061
{
“type” : “MONSTER”,
“id” : “mon_marloss_man”,
“name”: “marloss man”,
“species”:[“ABERRATION”, “FUNGUS”],
“default_faction”:“fungus”,
“symbol”:"@",
“color”:“i_white”,
“size”:“MEDIUM”,
“material”:“flesh”,
“diff”:40,
“aggression”:0,
“morale”:100,
“speed”:125,
“melee_skill”:10,
“melee_dice”:4,
“melee_dice_sides”:9,
“melee_cut”:5,
“dodge”:6,
“armor_bash”:16,
“armor_cut”:16,
“armor_acid”:6,
“vision_day”:50,
“vision_night”:7,
“death_drops”: {
“subtype”: “collection”,
“groups”: [
[“marloss_man_drops”, 100 ]
]
},
“hp”:240,
“death_function”:[“EXPLODE”, “FUNGUS”, “FUNGUS”, “FUNGUS”, “FUNGUS”, “FUNGUS”, “FUNGUS”],
“special_attacks”:[
[“FUNGUS”, 20], [“IMPALE”, 20], [“FUNGUS_INJECT”, 40], [“FEAR_PARALYZE”, 15], [“FUNGUS_BRISTLE”, 40],
{
“type” : “bite”,
“cooldown” : 60,
“min_mul” : 1.0
},{
“type” : “gun”,
“cooldown” : 7,
“gun_type” : “m249”,
“ammo_type” : “223”,
“max_ammo” : 1000,
“fake_str” : 31,
“fake_dex” : 19,
“fake_per” : 13,
“fake_skills” : [[“gun”, 10], [“rifle”, 7]],
“move_cost” : 120,
“targeting_cost” : 120,
“range” : 20,
“description” : “the shoulder-fired machine gun goes live!”,
“targeting_sound” : “the marloss man raise the gun to one shoulder!”,
“targeting_volume” : 20,
“no_ammo_sound” : “chnkchnkchnk”
}],
“starting_ammo” : {“223”:150},
“description”:“This survivor has willingly given their body to the fungus in some strange, ill-described ritual. As a result they have retained much of their personality and hold unnatural abilities. They don’t seem interested in talking to you; you cannot even discern their gender.”,
“flags”:[“SEES”, “HEARS”, “BASHES”, “GROUP_BASH”, “DESTROYS”, “POISON”, “HUMAN”, “NO_BREATHE”, “FIREPROOF”, “BONES”, “PUSH_MON”],
“anger_triggers”:[“HURT”, “FRIEND_ATTACKED”, “FIRE”, “PLAYER_CLOSE”],
"//" : “Very dangerous to anyone not in a PA suit. Will be evolving into a laser-wieling monstrosity.”
}

Sure. What does a marloss man do?

[Random_dragon]

It is terrifying.

[Logrin]

I’m tempted by the terrible force that is puns to suggest a Marlossus (Marloss Colossus)