Spider Silk Armor

Game Talk The Drawing Board
1

I was foraging through the forests earlier and saw a large spider nest.

And I wondered. “Why can’t I harvest this and make something useful?”

Then it hit me. We should be able to harvest the webs of spiders and make them into suits of armor.
Spider silk is 10x more stronger than steel, 3x stronger than kevlar, and more elastic than nylon. It’s not extremely rare, and it should be made to something that a PC can wear.

So I propose this, you can harvest webs and process it into fibers of silk, and use those fibers/thread to make cloth, which in turn can be turned into solid plates of armor.

So the process would look like: Webs > Fibers/Thread > Cloth > Plates

Individual pieces of armor could be the suit, gloves, boots, and mask.

[hr]

The cost to make each piece of armor would be

Mask: 4 plates, 6 cloth, 40 thread
Boots: 6 plates, 12 cloth, 80 thread
Gloves: 2 plates, 4 cloth, 50 thread
Suit: 26 plates, 32 cloth, 150 thread

Suit stats:

[spoiler]Volume: 32 Weight: 13.00 lbs/5.89 kg
Bash: 0 Cut: 0 To-hit bonus: N/A
Moves per attack: 362
Damage per move: 0.00
Materials: Spider Silk
Flags: VARSIZE, WATERPROOF, RAINPROOF, STURDY
Can be cut into: 13 Silk armor plates, 16 Spider cloth

Covers: legs, torso, arms
Coverage: 100%
Encumberment: 20 (10-12 if fits)
Protection: Bash: 26 Cut: 54
Acid: 56 Fire: 40 Elec: 30
Environmental protection: 12
Warmth: 15
Storage:

A sleek, and comfortable-looking suit of spider silk armor that’s as white as snow. It is made out of thousands of strands of spider silk, and is tougher than anything you would have imagined. This suit was designed in hopes to serve as a form of full-body armor for elite soldiers. Unfortunately, due to the resources need to make it, it is still in the late-prototype stage. Despite this, it is still capable of protecting you from immense amounts of harm.

This piece of clothing is designed to keep you dry in the rain.

This piece of clothing won’t let water through. Unless you jump in the river or something like that.

This piece of clothing is designed to protect you from harm and withstand a lot of abuse
[/spoiler]

Mask:

[spoiler]Volume: 6 Weight: 1.00 lbs/0.45 kg
Bash: 0 Cut: 0 To-hit bonus: N/A
Moves per attack: 110
Damage per move: 0.00
Materials: Spider Silk
Flags: VARSIZE, WATERPROOF, STURDY, SKINTIGHT
Can be cut into: 2 Silk armor plates, 4 Spider cloth

Covers: head
Coverage: 100%
Encumberment: 20 (10 if fits)
Protection: Bash: 24 Cut: 40
Acid: 56 Fire: 36 Elec: 30
Environmental protection: 5
Warmth: 15
Storage:

A mask made of pure white spider silk. It covers your entire head and face, leaving only your eyes unobscured. It is designed to protect you from harm and the elements.

This piece of clothing won’t let water through. Unless you jump in the river or something like that.

This piece of clothing is designed to protect you from harm and withstand a lot of abuse
[/spoiler]

Boots:

[spoiler]Volume: 10 Weight: 2.93 lbs/1.33 kg
Bash: 1 Cut: 0 To-hit bonus: -1
Moves per attack: 127
Damage per move: 0.01
Materials: Spider Silk
Flags: VARSIZE, WATERPROOF, STURDY
Can be cut into: 3 Silk armor plates, 6 Spider cloth

Covers: feet
Coverage: 100%
Encumberment: 20 (10 if fitted)
Protection: Bash: 32 Cut: 64
Acid: 70 Fire: 44 Elec: 32
Environmental protection: 7
Warmth: 15
Storage:

A pair of armored spider silk boots, white as pure snow. It is designed to provide maximum protection from harm, under any circumstance.

This piece of clothing won’t let water through. Unless you jump in the river or something like that.

This piece of clothing is designed to protect you from harm and withstand a lot of abuse
[/spoiler]

Gloves:

[spoiler]Volume: 3 Weight: 0.51 lbs/0.23 kg
Bash: 0 Cut: 0 To-hit bonus: +2
Moves per attack: 80
Damage per move: 0.00
Materials: Kevlar, Leather
Flags: VARSIZE, WATERPROOF, STURDY
Can be cut into: 1 Silk armor plate, 2 Spider cloth
Covers: hands
Coverage: 100%
Encumberment: 20 (5-10 if fits)
Protection: Bash: 20 Cut: 32
Acid: 42 Fire: 22 Elec: 18
Environmental protection: 5
Warmth: 15
Storage:

A pair of white, armored spider silk gloves. It is made to be comfortable while providing maximum protection under any circumstance.

This piece of clothing won’t let water through. Unless you jump in the river or something like that.

This piece of clothing is designed to protect you from harm and withstand a lot of abuse
[/spoiler]

[hr]

To balance this, the only way to repair damage done to this is using spider silk cloth, and using spider silk thread. Also, the process to make this should be difficult, long, use up a lot of resources, and require a high amount of fabrication, cooking, and tailoring to make.

Not to mention, the only way to craft this armor is to find a certain, top-secret file detailing the making of this suit of armor, like files you can find in the labs. But once you do this, you can build the necessary items needed to process webs to fibers, and so on.

I’m thinking of this to be a good mid-late game alternative to survivor armor, and to be somewhat of a craftable version of the RM13 combat armor, with less encumbrance and dependency on plutonium cells.

Anyway, you are free to suggest any suggestions or modifications to this, as it really isn’t an ironed-out idea (I just came up with this about 45 minutes ago.)

EDIT: In response to the general consensus that the stats are way too high, I lowered them a bit to slightly surpass normal survivor gear.

2

Those stats are stupidly huge and nowhere near sensible, but the idea itself could be implemented.

Spider silk could be an alternative to chitin or leather. For example, something like encumbrance of cotton but resistance of leather.

3

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:2, topic:13006”]Those stats are stupidly huge and nowhere near sensible, but the idea itself could be implemented.

Spider silk could be an alternative to chitin or leather. For example, something like encumbrance of cotton but resistance of leather.[/quote]

Maybe extra thick versions requiring twice as much silk with Kevlar level resistance but less weight and encumbrance than standard Kevlar. And harvestable spider silk could also be used to make (or in place of) thread and to make strings and ropes. Possibly special spider-silk ropes that weigh slightly less than standard ropes.

4

How about just the ability to harvest spider silk to make string? Spider mutants can already do it with their own silk.

5

We will be able to harvet dead bodies soon. Im actually kind of squeeing at the idea.

6

Oh damn those stats. But the idea is sound.

Is there anything that can compare to spider silk? Because if there is; just make it slightly tougher then that and boom. Spider silk armor.

7

[quote=“Mike64, post:6, topic:13006”]Oh damn those stats. But the idea is sound.

Is there anything that can compare to spider silk? Because if there is; just make it slightly tougher then that and boom. Spider silk armor.[/quote]

The first article I can find on how the idea is being aproached in real life is a bit dated but here. In real life the hope is to get something both stronger and lighter then Kevlar. Of course in real life they aren’t trying to make it under post apocalyptic conditions using mutant giant spiders. And last I knew they didn’t have a working prototype of the armor yet.

8

It seems that the general consensus is that the stats are really high, in which I agree to, but at the same time want to voice my reasoning behind it.

My reasoning behind this is that spider silk is supposed to be extremely strong - and I didn’t see how something like the heavy survivor suit (Something you can make out of just bits of metal, scraps of kevlar and leather) would surpass any kind of body armor made by scientists and engineers funded by the U.S. government.

Despite this, I get it that it was a prototype, and that it should be revised for some balancing purposes, so I propose it to have a “Home-built” version, one that you can craft, and with a lower protection value - and true prototype, an uncraftable version that was made by pre-cataclysm scientists and engineers, and can only be found in military bunkers, outposts, or in labs and it has the same stats as the example I gave above.

But still, the US government is looking at spider silk as a new way on making body armor in real life, with good reason.
It’s fireproof, or at least fire retardant (It will shrivel up when burned, but will not get destroyed) and is a decent insulator (Meaning that doesn’t conduct electricity).
Not to mention, I saw tests where a small sheet of spider silk, no thinner than a piece of paper, was able to stop a .22 lr bullet from going all the way through a piece of ballistics gel, and even then, the sheet of spider silk didn’t even break.

[quote=“proxiehunter, post:3, topic:13006”][quote=“Coolthulhu, post:2, topic:13006”]Those stats are stupidly huge and nowhere near sensible, but the idea itself could be implemented.

Spider silk could be an alternative to chitin or leather. For example, something like encumbrance of cotton but resistance of leather.[/quote]

Maybe extra thick versions requiring twice as much silk with Kevlar level resistance but less weight and encumbrance than standard Kevlar. And harvestable spider silk could also be used to make (or in place of) thread and to make strings and ropes. Possibly special spider-silk ropes that weigh slightly less than standard ropes.[/quote]
Spider silk is one of the strongest natural materials on Earth. I don’t see why it shouldn’t be this strong.

Unless, of course, it’s the home-built one then yes, maybe just a bit more protective than kevlar, or at least equal to it. I don’t really see the point of implementing it if you can easily just kill a bunch of zombie dogs, cut up their armor for kevlar and go on your merry way. However I can see it as an alternative to kevlar for nomads or general innawoods characters.

I agree, spider mutants being able to harvest their own webs sound like a good idea. However, regular humans being able to harvest spider webs made by mutated spiders should still be implemented imo.

9

My thought was that it should be equal to or slightly better than Kevlar but weigh much less and have less encumbrance. That would be a clear advantage over Kevlar hopefully without being OP.

10

If it was as good as you imply it is, spiders would have silk exoskeletons. Instead they have chitin ones, meaning that without technology that doesn’t exist IRL, silk is worse than chitin for the purpose of armoring self, regardless of whether you want a heavy armor (like fleas) or light one that just keeps the body in shape (flies).

In the game, silk would be easier to obtain than chitin, but still not as easily as artificial materials (except superalloy).
Its roles could be:

[ol][li]Protective underwear - low protection, but very low encumbrance. Useful for lightly armored characters trying to get enough armor or as complement for medium armors in hard to armor spots.[/li]
[li]Natural equivalent of ceramic - bad vs bashing, great vs cutting. Mostly useless vs zombies, but good vs all sorts of turrets and bots.[/li]
[li]Just cotton+1 (or +2) - this would require some sort of autobloating system, to allow crafting same items from different materials and deriving stats from those.[/li][/ol]

11

I wonder how insulating spider silk is. Do we know anything about how well it retains heat?

12

Silk made great under armor against ballistic attack, is soft, and is fairly good at environmental prot where it covers. Not going to stop a gun. But will stop arrows, will deflect smaller hits, would in theory help prevent infectious bites from penetrating the silk -but not the skin-?

throw on some duct taped up ‘burners’, the stretchy clump at the wrist, and you have functioning gear.

13

If it was as good as you imply it is, spiders would have silk exoskeletons. Instead they have chitin ones, meaning that without technology that doesn’t exist IRL, silk is worse than chitin for the purpose of armoring self, regardless of whether you want a heavy armor (like fleas) or light one that just keeps the body in shape (flies).[/quote]

The comparison between chitin and silk exoskeletons kinda fall flat in my view, they’re not very good comparisons. Both serve their purposes in different ways, one is for catching prey and the other is just… basic defense. If you really want to nit-pick then caterpillars make cocoons to protect themselves while they transform.

I’m just hoping that the silk armor would prove very effective against bullets. However, I don’t see why it wouldn’t do so well against bashing attacks.

My thought was that it should be equal to or slightly better than Kevlar but weigh much less and have less encumbrance. That would be a clear advantage over Kevlar hopefully without being OP.[/quote]

I agree with this, like I said - I don’t see the point of adding spider silk armor unless it’s at least equal to it, but will be able to provide a much lower encumbrance.

ANYWAY, i’m editing the original post to revise the stats on the armor.

14

why?

Kevlar is synthetic, silk is renewable. Silk is not going to stand up to kevlar.

15

They’re better the best “realism” argument so far. This is how it actually works in real life, everything else is “but what if” and sci-fi.

Both serve their purposes in different ways, one is for catching prey and the other is just... basic defense.

I don’t think the player wants to be a caught prey or an immobile cocoon. We’re talking about armor here, meaning that my comparison is, at the very least, spot on.

Which means that if you want it in the game, the only arguments that will stand are those that beat realism - ones about gameplay.
“Kevlar but better” is not good enough. Needs a different role.

16

Giant mutant spiders and proportional spider webs would theoretically make silk abundant enough to craft armour with.

However, even if silk itself were very resilient and could maybe stop a bullet itself, I’m not sure just how effective it’d be dissipating the sheer blunt force of bashing attacks. Resistance to acid is unknown, against fire debatable, and according to what I’ve read, it’s not a great insulator against electricity, gaining conductivity in the presence of humidity.

I’d see silk as one component of a more elaborate piece of composite armor, but in itself I don’t think it covers many bases.

It could also perhaps be the basis of an armor mod which strengthens anti-cutting protection, primarily?

[ul][li]EDIT: Found some info on fire and acid resistance.[/li][/ul]

[x][b]Effect of Heat:[/b] Silk is sensitive to heat and begins to decompose at 330° F (165° C). The silk fabrics thus have to be ironed when damp.

[ul][li]Reaction to Acids: Concentrated mineral acids will dissolve silk faster than wool. Organic acids do not harm silk.

[/li][/ul]
.

[ul][li]EDIT2: Found some info on the potential effectiveness of silk body armor. There’s concerns about blunt force absorption, as I speculated earlier, and the strength against higher calibres is unknown.[/li][/ul]

In 1999 the Rajamangala Institute of Technology tested the bullet-stopping qualities of silk fabric. They found that a vest made from 16 layers of silk was able to stop high velocity rifle and other bullets up to 9mm in caliber size (...) To the best of my calculations, one yard of silk fabric measures 36”x45” so eight yards of material could provide sixteen layers of silk measuring 18”x22.5”. This is enough material to create a tank top-style shirt which could fit the average adult. At four ounces per yard for the highest-quality silk the finished product would weigh approximately two pounds, which is about the same as a pair of jeans.
17

[quote=“Shadow86, post:16, topic:13006”]Giant mutant spiders and proportional spider webs would theoretically make silk abundant enough to craft armour with.

However, even if silk itself were very resilient and could maybe stop a bullet itself, I’m not sure just how effective it’d be dissipating the sheer blunt force of bashing attacks. Resistance to acid is unknown, against fire debatable, and according to what I’ve read, it’s not a great insulator against electricity, gaining conductivity in the presence of humidity.

I’d see silk as one component of a more elaborate piece of composite armor, but in itself I don’t think it covers many bases.

It could also perhaps be the basis of an armor mod which strengthens anti-cutting protection, primarily?

[ul][li]EDIT: Found some info on fire and acid resistance.[/li][/ul]

[x][b]Effect of Heat:[/b] Silk is sensitive to heat and begins to decompose at 330° F (165° C). The silk fabrics thus have to be ironed when damp.

[ul][li]Reaction to Acids: Concentrated mineral acids will dissolve silk faster than wool. Organic acids do not harm silk.

[/li][/ul]
.

[ul][li]EDIT2: Found some info on the potential effectiveness of silk body armor. There’s concerns about blunt force absorption, as I speculated earlier, and the strength against higher calibres is unknown.[/li][/ul]

In 1999 the Rajamangala Institute of Technology tested the bullet-stopping qualities of silk fabric. They found that a vest made from 16 layers of silk was able to stop high velocity rifle and other bullets up to 9mm in caliber size (...) To the best of my calculations, one yard of silk fabric measures 36”x45” so eight yards of material could provide sixteen layers of silk measuring 18”x22.5”. This is enough material to create a tank top-style shirt which could fit the average adult. At four ounces per yard for the highest-quality silk the finished product would weigh approximately two pounds, which is about the same as a pair of jeans.
[/quote]

Noted. It does seem like a solid idea to incorporate spider silk with other types of armor. Maybe some sort of souped-up survivor armor? Or perhaps a buff to existing combat armors? Hell, it’d seem like a good idea to incorporate them as some sort of plate-insert on MBR vests.

Also, how thick would the shirt be? Is it accurate to call it a shirt or is it more of a vest? I assume it would be a somewhat thick vest, due to it being able to stop a high-caliber rifle bullet. Also, two pounds for something that would stop a high-caliber bullet is a great weight to protection ratio.

Anyway, good calculations and info.

They’re better the best “realism” argument so far. This is how it actually works in real life, everything else is “but what if” and sci-fi.

Both serve their purposes in different ways, one is for catching prey and the other is just... basic defense.

I don’t think the player wants to be a caught prey or an immobile cocoon. We’re talking about armor here, meaning that my comparison is, at the very least, spot on.

Which means that if you want it in the game, the only arguments that will stand are those that beat realism - ones about gameplay.
“Kevlar but better” is not good enough. Needs a different role.[/quote]

Fair enough.
Like I agreed with above, it could be the basis or a buffer to a new/existing piece of armor. Being a renewable source of vest inserts, a natural version/alternative of Kevlar, or even as a modification to existing clothing (Think tailoring kits, and being able to line it with spider silk), or, just simply a material with the encumbrance of cotton, but resistance of Kevlar.

Right now i’m just throwing around ideas to make this idea viable, like I mentioned previously, my main concern here is that spider silk would be pointless because something like Kevlar could easily just be farmed by killing a the right monsters or finding the right items. I’m just trying to make it so that it is viable source of armor mid-late game. To show this, I want it so it would be slightly better than Kevlar, the same stats but less encumbering, etc. to give a reason for players to chase after it.

18

If silk does indeed become an armor, I think it’s worth considering silk to be a padding and not so much a proper armor. I don’t know how well it would hold up to cutting or piercing, but it’d probably be a fine blunt protection. I imagine it to be at least moderately insulating as well - nothing like fur and not quite wool, but a step above cotton.

It may end up being better than wool in that, unlike wool, you can find large amounts of it all in the same place. Dodging one web spider seems easier than dodging upwards of dozens of zeds between five to ten houses for the materials for a full suit of wool clothing.

It’s also something for the naturalists to work with when they don’t have armament to get fur and aren’t ready to deal with or otherwise can’t possibly find pre-fabricated clothing, which is good for options as far as play style.