Shoes' Temperature mod

Game Talk The Lab
81

I’m not even going to mention realism, but I will say that as far as gameplay is concerned, the amount of time and effort required to micromanage your character’s temperature at the moment is too much, in my opinion.

The system simply isn’t forgiving enough. As of 0.5 I’ve found myself going barefoot in Summer and even Spring to avoid either hauling around several pairs of shoes or racking up levels of pain on par with being shot five times in the head. Combined with encumbrance and weather, it presently makes for a very cumbersome playing experience that demands your character go to rather silly lengths in order to stay in passable shape.

I may be mistaken, but the philosophy behind the system appears to treat characters as though they are both constantly at a high level of physical activity and lack any sort of endurance for the conditions they’re exposed to non-stop? Regardless, I don’t think temperature management should impinge on gameplay as much as it presently does.

82

I have NO idea what you guys are doing in order to have this many problems with temperature. at 55F I have a jumpsuit and sneakers.

THAT’S IT and i’m listed as comfortable. when it dips to 53F or lower I have to throw on my glove-liners/light gloves and MAYBE a bandanna but I really don’t know why you guys are experiencing so many problems with temp. this is in summer mind you, in winter all bets are off. Winter EVERYTHING with a fur cloak to boot, huddled in my bed reading for days on end.

now, when i’m injured this changes. also the condition of my clothing effects their warmth. a torn pair of jeans provides less warmth than a reinforced pair (it seems). and when i’m injured those parts get chilly and my character gets cold overall because well, i’m hurt!

83

[quote=“halberdsturgeon, post:81, topic:128”]I’m not even going to mention realism, but I will say that as far as gameplay is concerned, the amount of time and effort required to micromanage your character’s temperature at the moment is too much, in my opinion.

The system simply isn’t forgiving enough. As of 0.5 I’ve found myself going barefoot in Summer and even Spring to avoid either hauling around several pairs of shoes or racking up levels of pain on par with being shot five times in the head. Combined with encumbrance and weather, it presently makes for a very cumbersome playing experience that demands your character go to rather silly lengths in order to stay in passable shape.

I may be mistaken, but the philosophy behind the system appears to treat characters as though they are both constantly at a high level of physical activity and lack any sort of endurance for the conditions they’re exposed to non-stop? Regardless, I don’t think temperature management should impinge on gameplay as much as it presently does.[/quote]

You are right in thinking that the player is currently being treated as always running around. It works better than the opposite, assuming the player is always at rest. This will be revisited when a proper sprint/run/walk/sneak system is implemented. This was also changed recently, so whereas cold had a few releases worth of balancing, this is warmth’s first time in the spotlight. As such, some numbers I casually chose are showing to be a little extreme.

I will look at pain and see what can be done there. At first glance, it does seem like I set them really high. I also know for sure that footwear was set too high; this was done before I added socks I think. Footwear could probably have a flat 20 or 30 warmth removed.

Were you getting “very hot” or “very cold” ever? This current release should inform the player if they are “warm” or “chilly”, which has no impact on most body parts.

If your issues are more than just feet and pain because of feet, let me know. How is sleeping?

84

I was able to ignore ‘warm’ levels of heat without any noticable problems. I think my feet were ‘hot!’ and their warmth value was in the pink, for what that’s worth. I also experienced trouble with my legs while wearing nothing but a pair of army pants. No sleep issues yet, aside from having to strip down before going to bed to avoid being woken up by the heat.

I suspect you could fix most of the problems with heat by revisiting the warmth numbers for clothing - for example, the pants and boots worn by military shouldn’t be causing pain when worn alone in temperate weather. You’ll need to remember not to make it impossible to stay warm in winter, as well, though. You could also consider increasing the threshold for uncomfortable/painful levels of heat, so that a warmth of 50 in 26C heat doesn’t inflict pain.

I haven’t examined the code, but does ‘sunny’ weather increase heat independently of ambient temperature? I remember it being absolutely impossible to achieve a comfortable body temperature, even when stripped naked, at 29C/sunny.

85

I don’t find much problem during day to day activities, but trying to sleep is…well, frustrating. Micro managing exactly how many socks or gloves I have to wear is tedious.

It also seems strange to me to have to wear a hat to bed, or wake up with a cold mouth. Especially with a blanket or bed.

I really like the idea of temperature playing a part of the game, but being woken up and being unable to get back to sleep because I forgot to take off my shoes or aren’t wearing gloves before I go to bed is a level of detail I don’t want.

86

I think you’re probably right. In my last game it was ‘Sunny 19C’ and I noticed that my character was ‘Warm (Rising)’, so I looked at my status screen and my feet were at (30) in sneakers and no socks.

Version: 0.5-14-gc37r641-dirty

87

heat is quickly becoming an issue. apart from a ‘slight’ balance tweak i’m actually okay with it being blisteringly hot in the summer. 80+ and i’d be uncomfortable in a pair of army fatigues and boots as well.

I’m pulling a Bane and running around with no shirt and a kevlar vest and army pants. boots are worn in combat only but it’s a pretty cool effect and keeps me bordering ‘warm’ and comfortable.

88

Heat that causes physical pain ought to be limited to exceptional circumstances, like standing next to a thermal vent. Wearing a pair of pants and boots in summer shouldn’t ever be painful.

89

thats what i mean by ‘slight’ tweak. I know I HATE being hot, I can’t stand the summer honestly. but physical damage is indeed a risk in the heat of the summer. so there’s that.

90

A lot of warmth values were set to withstand the terrible cold from previous versions. I think one thing I will need to do is revisit warmth redistribution in the body as well.

Also, being in sunny weather increases warmth by a fair amount, and being in clear weather increases it a little bit more.

91

OK, I’ve got my 08May version uploaded to Dropbox: [URL=https://www.dropbox.com/s/sldkb1qln5n966z/Cataclysm-DDA-master.7z]KA101’sNotQuite0.5MartialArtistCata[/URL] 7zip archive, roughly 4MB for the entire bloody thing. It predates the Warm/Chilly settings, so you’ll go directly from Comfortable(Rising) to Hot and taking morale penalties.

(If you get it right, you’ll even have the Hot Heado! Endearing typo is endearing.)

The save in question was carefully selected: 4 out of 5 sleep attempts (Insomniac, granted, but that would stop Sleep before it starts) woke up early…due to the Hot Legs that were no warmer than they were before sleeping. Waiting a turn before sleeping: also, 4/5 woke up early. The legs didn’t actually show up in yellow, etc upon waking up: took all sorts of screencaps before deciding to just zip the bloody thing and be done with it.

92

I just realised that at the moment I find heat waves more terrifying than zombie waves.

93

[quote=“KA101, post:91, topic:128”]OK, I’ve got my 08May version uploaded to Dropbox: KA101’sNotQuite0.5MartialArtistCata 7zip archive, roughly 4MB for the entire bloody thing. It predates the Warm/Chilly settings, so you’ll go directly from Comfortable(Rising) to Hot and taking morale penalties.

(If you get it right, you’ll even have the Hot Heado! Endearing typo is endearing.)

The save in question was carefully selected: 4 out of 5 sleep attempts (Insomniac, granted, but that would stop Sleep before it starts) woke up early…due to the Hot Legs that were no warmer than they were before sleeping. Waiting a turn before sleeping: also, 4/5 woke up early. The legs didn’t actually show up in yellow, etc upon waking up: took all sorts of screencaps before deciding to just zip the bloody thing and be done with it.[/quote]

If the only issue in that save is sleeping, I will just take your word for it. I am not content with how sleeping is done; at first it only checked torso, which wasn`t great. Now it checks all limbs, which isn’t great either… Right now it is hardcoded to wake you up if you are “very hot” or “very cold” – I will change that to “scorching” and “freezing”, and the odds of waking up due to cold/warmth will continue rising. I might also revisit the odds of sleeping and whatnot. One thing that is misleading and hard to communicate to the player is that your body generates less heat while you sleep (which makes your “warm legs” thing even more worrying). This means that the player will wake up being told they have different temps than they do when they sleep. Not sure what to do there. I will look into having the odds of waking up increase over time while you’re sleeping and warm. That way, you can get away with being sweaty and stuff in your sleep, but after a while it gets to be too much.

Yesssss :3

Also in general, I cracked the logic for the new item flags, and it works as I hoped, so that means that I can add my “oversize” flags so people can use blankets while wearing shoes, and that means I can also freely add things like “wind resistance” to clothing. Not sure about warmth per body part for clothing. Exams are coming up for my students, so we might see a burst of progress!

94

[quote=“Shoes, post:93, topic:128”][quote=“KA101, post:91, topic:128”]OK, I’ve got my 08May version uploaded to Dropbox: KA101’sNotQuite0.5MartialArtistCata 7zip archive, roughly 4MB for the entire bloody thing. It predates the Warm/Chilly settings, so you’ll go directly from Comfortable(Rising) to Hot and taking morale penalties.

(If you get it right, you’ll even have the Hot Heado! Endearing typo is endearing.)

The save in question was carefully selected: 4 out of 5 sleep attempts (Insomniac, granted, but that would stop Sleep before it starts) woke up early…due to the Hot Legs that were no warmer than they were before sleeping. Waiting a turn before sleeping: also, 4/5 woke up early. The legs didn’t actually show up in yellow, etc upon waking up: took all sorts of screencaps before deciding to just zip the bloody thing and be done with it.[/quote]

If the only issue in that save is sleeping, I will just take your word for it. I am not content with how sleeping is done; at first it only checked torso, which wasn`t great. Now it checks all limbs, which isn’t great either… Right now it is hardcoded to wake you up if you are “very hot” or “very cold” – I will change that to “scorching” and “freezing”, and the odds of waking up due to cold/warmth will continue rising. I might also revisit the odds of sleeping and whatnot. One thing that is misleading and hard to communicate to the player is that your body generates less heat while you sleep (which makes your “warm legs” thing even more worrying). This means that the player will wake up being told they have different temps than they do when they sleep. Not sure what to do there. I will look into having the odds of waking up increase over time while you’re sleeping and warm. That way, you can get away with being sweaty and stuff in your sleep, but after a while it gets to be too much.[/quote]

Well, lah-dee-dah. It’d be nice to have feedback in the going-to-sleep phase regarding temperature as well. Something like “it’ll be tough to sleep in this heat/cold” ought to do it. Further, it seems that a Log Wall stops the temperature effect from lava tiles–not sure if that’s intentional or not, but it would have been nice to know before I built my winter cabin.

Yesssss :3

Also in general, I cracked the logic for the new item flags, and it works as I hoped, so that means that I can add my “oversize” flags so people can use blankets while wearing shoes, and that means I can also freely add things like “wind resistance” to clothing. Not sure about warmth per body part for clothing. Exams are coming up for my students, so we might see a burst of progress![/quote]

Is that what you call it?

95

KA101 : I think adding a little warning as the player falls asleep will be easily doable. I will look into it. Lava and fire are considered radiante heat sources, so if your sight to them is blocked, you don’t get warmed by them. Yes it would warm the wall that would then warm the air inside your cabin… but we are not that far yet. That’s back to the insulation discussion.

96

So lemme make sure I understand this: assume that the lava is 6 tiles away, direct-line. Put a Log Wall on the 5th tile, and I’m completely insulated from lava-based heat.

Put a Stage 3 (residential) Window the next tile over, step behind it, and I’m getting heat because I can see the lava. Closing the curtains breaks LOS, so again I’m completely insulated.

Are those statements accurate?

97

Yes, that is how radiant heat works. Ever gone to a camp fire, and blocked the sight of the flame with your hand so your face wouldn’t be so warm?

98

Good way to cook your hand in a hurry ahha.

99

Yep. If I put something closer to a fire it’s because the something is cold and I want it warmed. (Hint!)

100

Yep. If I put something closer to a fire it’s because the something is cold and I want it warmed. (Hint!)[/quote]

You’re right in saying putting something close to fire will warm it up. I am also right in saying that if you block the radiant energy being emitted from the fire, you don’t get warmed up.