Needful things (simple additions to improve the game)

[Coolthulhu]

what if it was done so first aid kits have whats needed, and you use what you need to patch yourself up instead of the whole thing? Or maybe get the items back you didn’t use when using the first aid kit.

FAKs having multiple counters for components is somewhat reasonable.

Would need to be displayed nicely.
It would be better to just scrap the kits and make items spawn in groups. Like, instead of spawning a first aid kit, spawn 10 aspirins, 3 bandages and a bottle of disinfectant. Maybe add a disinfected thread item for surgery.

[Zero]

Or just require disinfectant to use the item on wounds or else risk infection. This would probably all go over better with the intended wounds update.

[troll_from_behind]

Just a thought, but wouldn’t the FA-kits in the future be more advanced than what we now got ergo negating the need to alter the current system as far as first aid goes?
For a world 30+ years into future a lot of things haven’t really evolved.

[Zero]

Well, they’re made from aspirin, disinfectant and bandages, aren’t they?

[Litppunk]

well considering people can be all better with nothing but a couple of medkits and maybe a night of sleep after taking direct damage from a landline. I am going to have to disagree. Im going with the idea that while the basics remain the same, people have been injected with nanites? which just seed some specialized supplies (medkits) to get the body really nice and fixed up rather quickly, in addition to normal medical practice such as bandages… and also killing any cancerous cells in the body. Which is why radiation and eating and doing other things which cause horrible mutations don’t (normally) just cause life ending stage 4 cancer. Im going to jump from that limb and say that robust genetics “trait” is actually just people that got a newer, more advanced form of the nanites that are better at recognizing “good” mutations from “bad” mutations. I say better because the original nanites are already from a world where many people go around making genetic modifications to themselves apparently, and the nanite programers took this into account. Think that makes the lore fit a little more snugly with the game?

[Pandromidal]

well considering people can be all better with nothing but a couple of medkits and maybe a night of sleep after taking direct damage from a landline.

Someone needs to do a bad ideas post about landlines LOL.

Im going with the idea that while the basics remain the same, people have been injected with nanites? which just seed some specialized supplies (medkits) to get the body really nice and fixed up rather quickly, in addition to normal medical practice such as bandages… and also killing any cancerous cells in the body.

I actually think this is an interesting explanation. I like it. Another possibility is that instead of nanobots it’s the goo.

[CosmicKobal]

[quote=“Litppunk, post:1785, topic:5570”]well considering people can be all better with nothing but a couple of medkits and maybe a night of sleep after taking direct damage from a landline.

Someone needs to do a bad ideas post about landlines LOL.

Im going with the idea that while the basics remain the same, people have been injected with nanites? which just seed some specialized supplies (medkits) to get the body really nice and fixed up rather quickly, in addition to normal medical practice such as bandages… and also killing any cancerous cells in the body.

I actually think this is an interesting explanation. I like it. Another possibility is that instead of nanobots it’s the goo.[/quote]

speaking of landl’m’ines, the other day I tested just how deadly they were against someone moderately armored (boiled leather, chiton boots, army helm, elbow pads etc. and I actually had to set off all but 2 of the mines in the little minefield in order to die.

Seems like they should do 2 or 3 times as much damage to the legs as the rest of you, but my arms were crippled before my legs were. in fact, my legs didn’t even get crippled, I died before they could get crippled… tell me that’s not messed up? lol

now that I really think about it, these mines should have a pretty hefty armor penetration. just stepping on ONE of these bad boys should be enough to ruin someones day, so a little boiled leather armor shouldn’t let me just shrug it off

[Coolthulhu]

Seems like they should do 2 or 3 times as much damage to the legs as the rest of you, but my arms were crippled before my legs were. in fact, my legs didn’t even get crippled, I died before they could get crippled… tell me that’s not messed up? lol

It’s more like armor needs a giant nerf.
Armor is stupidly effective now, a leather armor will only let zeds damage you if they hit an uncovered place. More - leather clothing will do the same.

[Litppunk]

I actually think this is an interesting explanation. I like it. Another possibility is that instead of nanobots it's the goo.

Thanks. Hmm Yea I like the goo thing, but Im sad to see the US nannies powered cancer vaccine idea hit the trash so quick :(

speaking of landl'm'ines, the other day I tested just how deadly they were against someone moderately armored (boiled leather, chiton boots, army helm, elbow pads etc. and I actually had to set off all but 2 of the mines in the little minefield in order to die.

Seems like they should do 2 or 3 times as much damage to the legs as the rest of you, but my arms were crippled before my legs were. in fact, my legs didn’t even get crippled, I died before they could get crippled… tell me that’s not messed up? lol

now that I really think about it, these mines should have a pretty hefty armor penetration. just stepping on ONE of these bad boys should be enough to ruin someones day, so a little boiled leather armor shouldn’t let me just shrug it off

Wow they are really that weak? definitely needs some fix. I assume they are antipersonnel mines…from the future… so they should definitely do more damage.

However I think these may be bouncing betty type land mines, (which fits the graphic for their explosion and the damage dispersion) in which case I would like to recommend that a character addition be made. (Mine dodging) calculated by reflexes, and maybe previous experience with getting blown up by land mines. (How many times you think it would take before player starts getting ptsd and diving to the ground at every click sound) Which decreases damage taken by land mines, and maybe other explosive type devises that ‘duck and cover’ could help with. Of coarse you lose a turn or so diving and then getting back up (less time lost with more reflexes and experience)

If the bouncing betty thing is how the mines work I think they should leave behind a hull of some sort, scrap metal maybe, spring, etc.

It's more like armor needs a giant nerf. Armor is stupidly effective now, a leather armor will only let zeds damage you if they hit an uncovered place. More - leather clothing will do the same.

Well and then there is always that. Instead of nerving armor, everything else could always be brought up to their level Cuz that wouldn’t be a lot of work or anything.

[Coolthulhu]

Well and then there is always that. Instead of nerving armor, everything else could always be brought up to their level Cuz that wouldn’t be a lot of work or anything.

It would be much, much more work.
Otherwise you’d end up with zombies halving your hp and stats with just 2-3 hits, hulks insta-killing unarmored characters and similar weird stuff.

The problem with armor isn’t just zombies being unable to hit through it, it’s also the problem of armor being nearly mandatory (armor-less characters are very fragile compared to just clothed ones), the problem of armor being free (it’s very easy to get immunity to zed hits without raising encumbrance above 0) and the uselessness of small caliber firearms against player (wear thick clothing and you can tank turret fire).

Plus, it’s very easy to get great armor early on - just spend the first day crafting clothing until you get a hoodie+trenchcoat.

[Litppunk]

Otherwise you'd end up with zombies halving your hp and stats with just 2-3 hits, hulks insta-killing unarmored characters and similar weird stuff.

Well not if you change the HP accordingly and not just the damage. But also…

You do realize that I was mostly joking about changing everything around the armor instead of changing armor itself right??? But at same time a lot of areas seem to be experiencing a little growing pain of not having enough range to work with. (encumbrance for example) multiplying basically everything by 10…or maybe 100… would have benefits. (I feel certain there is a reason some games start their games with ridiculously huge numbers for everything, besides just making everything seem more epic)
Although since I don’t do any coding I can hardly feel justified pushing for such a large rework of the game on those that do if they don’t want to. So please don’t view this as anything more than an offhand comment.

[Valpo]

Hows getting killed in one hit by a hulk without armor weird?

[Coolthulhu]

Hows getting killed in one hit by a hulk without armor weird?

The part where wearing a hoodie+trenchcoat+helmet would be enough to make it not happen.

[Valpo]

You got a point.
Armor (normal clothing in general) is still to strong compared to the dmg output of the enemies and the available hp pool.

[Kryxx]

[quote=“Valpo, post:1794, topic:5570”]You got a point.
Armor (normal clothing in general) is still to strong compared to the dmg output of the enemies and the available hp pool.[/quote]

There is no piercing damage in the game (yet?). So piercing, is cutting. This is where it’s off. Clothing, does tend to restrict cutting as things get caught up and cannot easily cut through leather/metal and other strong points.

Arrows/bullets etc, are designed to puncture through in a small area.

If your wearing a leather jacket would you rather have me slash you with a survival knife, shoot you with an arrow, or hit you with a baseball bat in the torso (you don’t get to dodge/block).

Of all of them the arrow will most likely get to the skin and do the most damage, The others the leather jacket will absorb some/most of the overall dmg and the actual tissue dmg would be smaller. The cut would bleed some (this acually causing more pain/damage over a longer time), the bash would bruise and hurt muscles/bone and cause more longer term pain depending on area. The arrow would cause immediate hurt in that spot.

something else.
I found it odd that First Aid Kits were consumed and not a object in which to reload.

Most of the time, I see it as a basic sterile supplies like guaze, pain killers etc.

Sure it has multiple things to create it, but something to re-supply it. Even if it’s like disinfectant

Why, the firearms repair kit takes batteries. Really? I guess they assume your milling and re-boring it or something. I guess they wanted something consumable and picked batteries. Really you would be using precision machining tools, which I guess take power so they said “batteries”

So since that is the idea, pick something for the First Aid Kit. Don’t make it consume on use. Typically you have the tools in it, and you re-fill those when needed.

[RAM]

You want it to use disinfectant and bandages and probably some disposable sterile tools and it is just simpler to have it consumed on use that to try to take into account its greater effectiveness while it only uses a single resource.

[Valpo]

your not using up a container when using a first aid kit and your not using one when creating it. It may not be ideal for imaginagtion but concerning the gameplay mechanic its fine.

[Eliijahh]

[quote=“CosmicKobal, post:1787, topic:5570”]Seems like they should do 2 or 3 times as much damage to the legs as the rest of you, but my arms were crippled before my legs were. in fact, my legs didn’t even get crippled, I died before they could get crippled… tell me that’s not messed up? lol

It’s more like armor needs a giant nerf.
Armor is stupidly effective now, a leather armor will only let zeds damage you if they hit an uncovered place. More - leather clothing will do the same.[/quote]

I understand that a zombe brute should rape you even with a leather jacket and a t-shirt. But it is generally undervalued the capacity of simple armor, like padded armor, to absorb a great amount of energy. I’ll give you this example.

Look how effective it can be against some hits.

Moreover if I had to fight against a brute, I’d be scared of using a metal armor because a concussion would be as effective as without any armor. I’d rather have a little of armor, like padded, and be able to move around very fast to just evade. So it is not just a problem of armor being too strong, it is also a problem of which type of armor does what.

[Coolthulhu]

I’d rather have a little of armor, like padded, and be able to move around very fast to just evade. So it is not just a problem of armor being too strong, it is also a problem of which type of armor does what.

Heavily padded armor should probably give at least 1 encumbrance.
It is very easy to construct a 0 encumbrance “padded armor” (hoodie gives like 6 armor) and then be invulnerable to zeds.

Even thick clothing shouldn’t just make you totally immune to punches/kicks/bites.

[CosmicKobal]

Hows getting killed in one hit by a hulk without armor weird?

thank you. was wondering the same. I always thought that hulks and brutes SHOULD at the least, almost kill you if you are un-armored. There should be enemies that you go’ oh HELL NO!!’ and grab the explosives.