Migration from launchpad.net

LazyCat-rus · 2013-12-15T16:10:04.000Z

I want to suggest to any translation team to migrate from launchpad to transifex.
launchpad.net has several problems:

[ul][li]You get translated file as link on e-mail[/li]
[li]Strings search timeouts.(MUST hatest)[/li]
[li]There is no smart search(search criteria)[/li]
[li]Translated string can’t be commented.[/li]
[li]There is no dictionary(with project related words) for all languages[/li]
[li]There are no history changes[/li][/ul]

I guess, you can add couple of problems in that list…

I suggest to every translation’s team’s to migrate to transifex.com project. I added Cataclysm-DDA repository and tested it on Russian language. I like it. It solves all launchpad.net problems. Russian translation actualy is making by transifex.
So created only Russian language for now. If you want to test this project on your language, register on transifex.com and tell me what is your language. I will add this language.
Furthermore, I created simple web-page with downloading of .mo files on direct link’s. Right now is only for Russian, but it’s easy to add other languages. [LINK]
And I have made shell-script which is does automated update from transifex.com and upload it to web-page. So, if you need to post actual translations to your web-site, you can use it. Just change some varaibles in script body. [SCRIPT-LINK]
Discuss.

Wuzzy · 2013-12-15T20:09:53.000Z

As a translator, I strongly oppose this suggestion.

As far I can tell, transiflex is not free, neither in freedom (not free software) nor in price. The only thing that is “free” (no cost) is a 30-day test period. I do not want that. C:DDA is a free software project and it would be foolish if we start to depend on non-free software.

On the other hand, launchpad.net clearly has problems, I have to agree with you. But an alternative should be free (at least in freedom) and come with no strings attached. Transiflex is not one of these alternatives. Launchpad.net is based on free software, so theoretically someone with the (server) capacity could start an own Launchpad instance just for C:DDA. Maybe this server could be even more reliable than the big Launchpad.net server because there is not so much traffic. That would at least kill one of the downers, but not all. But that’s the best solution I can think of for now, sorry.

If launchpad.net is a serious problem for you, you can always fall back to this: download strings from launchpad.net, edit the .po file with your favourite editor, upload it back to launchpad.net again.

There is no dictionary(with project related words) for all languages

This is something which could go into our wiki. We don’t need extra software for this.

Edit:
I have done a little Internet search and found two Launchpad alternatives which are free software:
Pootle
I don’t know much about this one except that it’s a Launchpad alternative; More research on this one must be done.

Weblate
This one seems promising: Has strong Git integration. That’s great because C:DDA uses Git. Supports history. Translations can be commented. Comes with its own glossary/dictionary. I don’ know for sure how string downloads are done; I guess you use Git for it as well. Some advanced search criteria are available. I think this meets all of your criticisms to Launchpad.

I haven’t worked with any of those softwares, so I can’t assure you from experience that those softwares are actually good. Remember that those are just softwares, not servers, so someone has to set up a server and install the software. So something like a timeout problem should not happen if the server runs well.

I don’t propose anything now, especially when I don’t know much about the alternatives yet.
I just wanted to show that transiflex isn’t the only alternative and that there are also actual free software alternatives besides Launchpad.

LazyCat-rus · 2013-12-15T21:03:31.000Z

As far I can tell, transiflex is not free, neither in freedom (not free software) nor in price. The only thing that is “free” (no cost) is a 30-day test period. I do not want that. C:DDA is a free software project and it would be foolish if we start to depend on non-free software.

You definitely wrong. This is totally free(free as freedom) project. Welcome to [url=https://github.com/transifex/transifex]github[/url]. You can setup your own transifex on your home. And transifex is free(as payment) when used for open-source software. Just look on this list [url=https://www.transifex.com/customers/open-source/]https://www.transifex.com/customers/open-source/[/url]

If launchpad.net is a serious problem for you, you can always fall back to this: download strings from launchpad.net, edit the .po file with your favourite editor, upload it back to launchpad.net again.

But... if somebody already translate my local file parts. How we will resolve this conflict with launchpad way?

This is something which could go into our wiki. We don’t need extra software for this.

Yes we need extra software for this. Wiki don't tell me and other team translators how to translate special word or abbreviation to my language. And wiki don't prompts me(and my teammates) than CBM must be translated as "" in every strings. And, why i should go external resource when i need to only translate?

Wuzzy · 2013-12-15T21:17:08.000Z

Oh. Sorry. That “nonfree software” thing I wrote was false.

But I still don’t see how the server is free-as-in-price for FOSS projects. That page just shows that FOSS projects are using transiflex. This does not mean those projects are using it for no pay. Below the list there is an ad for a “30 day test version”. Which implies it is not free-as-in-price. I wonder who would pay the money then?
But in this case this problem could be avoided by simply installing a new transiflex instance on a new server. Just out of curiousity: Is there anywhere in the web an independent instance of transiflex used (not the official website)? If yes, just show me the link to it.

Please also see my edited post.

Edit: Hmmm, actually, when I think about it, Launchpad is actually very, very awful and a pain in the ass to use. I support your suggestion of moving from Launchpad away. BUT: I am now undecided to which software a potential migration shall go.

Edit 2: In case this isn’t clear now: My strong opposition against transiflex does not exist anymore. My position is now “undecided”.

Edit 3: Wait a minute! If I see it correctly, Transifex is offering a SaaS. How do they guarantee that the software they use for it is the same as the source code they published? They may have added proprietary parts which are not part of the published source code, maybe as part of a “premium plan” or something like that. Although I would not oppose installing an independent Transifex instance per se, I would be skeptical of using their SaaS.

Also, I would to hear the opinions of other translators.

LazyCat-rus · 2013-12-16T13:44:56.000Z

But I still don’t see how the server is free-as-in-price for FOSS projects. That page just shows that FOSS projects are using transiflex. This does not mean those projects are using it for no pay. Below the list there is an ad for a “30 day test version”. Which implies it is not free-as-in-price. I wonder who would pay the money then?

Commercial closed-source projects pays + (may be) personal project support + "Order translation" service + (may be) donated by fedora foundation.

But in this case this problem could be avoided by simply installing a new transiflex instance on a new server. Just out of curiousity: Is there anywhere in the web an independent instance of transiflex used (not the official website)? If yes, just show me the link to it.

I don't know about this instances. But i never search them.

Edit 2: In case this isn’t clear now: My strong opposition against transiflex does not exist anymore. My position is now “undecided”.

What is your language? German? Please test it. [url=https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/cataclysm-dda/language/de/]https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/cataclysm-dda/language/de/[/url] But last update time is 06 Dec.

Edit 3: Wait a minute! If I see it correctly, Transifex is offering a SaaS. How do they guarantee that the software they use for it is the same as the source code they published? They may have added proprietary parts which are not part of the published source code, maybe as part of a “premium plan” or something like that. Although I would not oppose installing an independent Transifex instance per se, I would be skeptical of using their SaaS.

OK. But, for example, we use github.com for git hosting. And we trust them. I think you got my point. Yes, we can setup our transifex instance, but we need VDS hosting for that. I have not it.

Wuzzy · 2013-12-16T16:24:48.000Z

LazyCat-rus:

What is your language? German? Please test it.

“My” languages are German, English, LOLSPEAK and Lojban. xD
I just tried to try it but the system requires me to register a new account just to download the translation. This is so lame. --
Well, I have registered an account but the activation e-mail haven’t arrived after 25 minutes. --'
Mandatory accounts for the most trivial tasks are one of the most needless things of the World Wide Web, seriously!
This misfeature is clearly a showstopper to me.
Unless you can show me that it is somehow possible to get rid of this shit, I have a bad opinion about transifex again.

I don’t care about other transifex arguments for the moment.

LazyCat-rus:

Edit 3: Wait a minute! If I see it correctly, Transifex is offering a SaaS. How do they guarantee that the software they use for it is the same as the source code they published? They may have added proprietary parts which are not part of the published source code, maybe as part of a “premium plan” or something like that. Although I would not oppose installing an independent Transifex instance per se, I would be skeptical of using their SaaS.
OK. But, for example, we use github.com for git hosting. And we trust them. I think you got my point. Yes, we can setup our transifex instance, but we need VDS hosting for that. I have not it.

Yes, C:DDA uses GitHub for hosting but this doesn’t mean I am fine with that either. GitHub does not run entirely on free software. So I don’t understand why they are being trusted. But I don’t want to start a discussion on GitHub here, this should go to a different thread then! Anyhow, your “we” clearly does not include me, obviously. So the analogy does not quite apply here.

My opinion summary:
Launchpad: sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks (based on personal experience)
transifex: bad, based on what I’ve been told so far
Pootle: no opinion yet
Weblate: no real opinion yet, but sounds promising, based from what I’ve read.

Edit:
Important: I will stick to Launchpad for the moment even if I don’t like it. A transition to a different translation platform is serious business and shouldn’t be done without consulting other translators as well. The developers also should have a say here, obviously. It’s not enough if just we two agree that Launchpad sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks. So translators and developers, please speak up, too.

LazyCat-rus · 2013-12-18T01:49:35.000Z

Well, I have registered an account but the activation e-mail haven’t arrived after 25 minutes. -_-'

This very strange. o_O

Mandatory accounts for the most trivial tasks are one of the most needless things of the World Wide Web, seriously!

That works modern web. Sad, but true. Btw. i have asking support about this http://support.transifex.com/customer/portal/questions/4441958-compiled-mo-translation-download

Important: I will stick to Launchpad for the moment even if I don’t like it. A transition to a different translation platform is serious business and shouldn’t be done without consulting other translators as well. The developers also should have a say here, obviously. It’s not enough if just we two agree that Launchpad sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks. So translators and developers, please speak up, too.

It can be wait. It's possibly to make painless migration in any time. It's important to know than launchpad is not only one translation systems.

Wuzzy · 2013-12-18T08:25:53.000Z

Okay, I finally got my activation mail. Okay I could download the .po file and it looks okay so far.
Apparently there was something wrong with my mailserver, not with their’s.

yobbo · 2013-12-20T22:45:08.000Z

Migrating to transifex sounds like a good idea to me. Launchpad is seriously annoying.

Launchpad also requires you to register an account to download the translation.

LazyCat-rus has offered to make the .mo files available automatically for translations from transifex, which is a big plus. So then you could download them without an account.