Let's make this game evolve

Game Talk The Drawing Board
1

This game is easy. Astonishingly easy. Really, very very easy.
Or at least that is what late game people say?

What does this mean? Late game is not hard enough, ladies and gentlemen.
My suggestion will not fix that, but it will indeed make the game more challenging!

Evolving monsters is something that has been suggested before, but never got somewhere! I post this because i seriously want it.

I know that some people don’t like the idea, or they like it but don’t like the implementations of it.
My idea for implementation is this:

Every turn, each zombie in the reality bubble has a “chance” to evolve, that is calculed every turn.
This “chance” value would be a variable that gets higher each day, and a bit more each season change.

The first “chance” value would be:

Odds = 1 : 280,000

The same as a lighting striking you, supposedly. It would make finding evolved zombies quite interesting the first days, if almost impossible.

Let’s say that each day the chance grows by 0.02%, and eaach season change by %0.06

In a few years, the chance of evolving would be almost full. The already evolved zombies would have even another level of evolution, wich would start to get it’s “chance” value lower by the time the first “chance” value is higher than 50%.

Why is this system any better than just making them evolve at the end of the year? Well, it is way better in making progressive difficulty and to make the player more comfortable with the change. Also, you would not need to “go away until mapgen generates harsher zombies for you”, because it would affect the zombies you see.

So, the game would slowly develop harsher to play. This evolved versions would not be just tougher, they’d also become more intelligent (seeing you from further away, for example), fast and aggressive. Like an enraged version.

KMTGkWM.png874×351

1- Zombie: Your normal zombie.

2- Goo Zombie: Already evolved zombie. The evolution is caused by the goo starting to fill and repair the zombie by inside, making it more powerful.

3- Goo Monster: The truly evolved version, basically the Goo surrounding the entire body and making the creature be basically a soldier from the nether. Just when you see them they have already saw you, running at you at really high speeds. If evolved zombies are as tough as soldiers this ones will be huge, scary things to play against. And that is just the normal one. Never try to fight a Goo Hulk!

(Take in count that those are just to get your ideas, but i’m pretty sure they need a serious balance. The descriptions apply that too, they are just to show)

Requirements for this to be done? Just simple things:

1- Two logarythms to make the creature “evolve” from Zombie to Goo Zombie, and from Goo Zombie to Goo Monster, with the respective “chances”. This logarythm needs to be specific for each type of zombie. This could be really awesome to create other kind of creatures too.

2- A logarythm to make the “chances” go down a bit each day, and each X days. (X being the value of the number of days the season has)

3- The new zombies. Just changing values, easy!

4- Balacing, mostly. With numbers and new zombies.

I think this is something the game definetly needs. The feeling of being killable by the late game is just way better.
And i’d truly love to tile the fudge of those new zombies.

2

[quote=“StopSignal, post:1, topic:8060”]This game is easy. Astonishingly easy. Really, very very easy.
Or at least that is what late game people say?

What does this mean? Late game is not hard enough, ladies and gentlemen.
My suggestion will not fix that, but it will indeed make the game more challenging!

Evolving monsters is something that has been suggested before, but never got somewhere! I post this because i seriously want it.

I know that some people don’t like the idea, or they like it but don’t like the implementations of it.
My idea for implementation is this:

Every turn, each zombie in the reality bubble has a “chance” to evolve, that is calculed every turn.
This “chance” value would be a variable that gets higher each day, and a bit more each season change.

The first “chance” value would be:

Odds = 1 : 280,000

The same as a lighting striking you, supposedly. It would make finding evolved zombies quite interesting the first days, if almost impossible.

Let’s say that each day the chance grows by 0.02%, and eaach season change by %0.06

In a few years, the chance of evolving would be almost full. The already evolved zombies would have even another level of evolution, wich would start to get it’s “chance” value lower by the time the first “chance” value is higher than 50%.

Why is this system any better than just making them evolve at the end of the year? Well, it is way better in making progressive difficulty and to make the player more comfortable with the change. Also, you would not need to “go away until mapgen generates harsher zombies for you”, because it would affect the zombies you see.

So, the game would slowly develop harsher to play. This evolved versions would not be just tougher, they’d also become more intelligent (seeing you from further away, for example), fast and aggressive. Like an enraged version.

KMTGkWM.png874×351

1- Zombie: Your normal zombie.

2- Goo Zombie: Already evolved zombie. The evolution is caused by the goo starting to fill and repair the zombie by inside, making it more powerful.

3- Goo Monster: The truly evolved version, basically the Goo surrounding the entire body and making the creature be basically a soldier from the nether. Just when you see them they have already saw you, running at you at really high speeds. If evolved zombies are as tough as soldiers this ones will be huge, scary things to play against. And that is just the normal one. Never try to fight a Goo Hulk!

(Take in count that those are just to get your ideas, but i’m pretty sure they need a serious balance. The descriptions apply that too, they are just to show)

Requirements for this to be done? Just simple things:

1- Two logarythms to make the creature “evolve” from Zombie to Goo Zombie, and from Goo Zombie to Goo Monster, with the respective “chances”. This logarythm needs to be specific for each type of zombie. This could be really awesome to create other kind of creatures too.

2- A logarythm to make the “chances” go down a bit each day, and each X days. (X being the value of the number of days the season has)

3- The new zombies. Just changing values, easy!

4- Balacing, mostly. With numbers and new zombies.

I think this is something the game definetly needs. The feeling of being killable by the late game is just way better.
And i’d truly love to tile the fudge of those new .[/quote]

Zombies should evolve into a half goo like monster. As the zombies body decays over time, the goo would rebuild and even replace rotted away body parts. Say there’s a zombie with a skeleton arm, the goo would rebuild whatever has decayed, but it’ll never be as effective as the original.

The lore with the goo is confusing, does it takes care of the body, or let it rot? I don’t get how a corpse can stay in mint condition 5 five years into the cataclysm and is still not a skeleton yet. Also what does the goo use for energy? Beware I’ve still haven’t survived the labs yet, those turrets are vicious.

3

That’s why i said they were just for examples, because i am not sure. But this would be needed, i guess?

4

Zombies should evolve into a half goo like monster. As the zombies body decays over time, the goo would rebuild and even replace rotted away body parts. Say there’s a zombie with a skeleton arm, the goo would rebuild whatever has decayed, but it’ll never be as effective as the original.

The lore with the goo is confusing, does it takes care of the body, or let it rot? I don’t get how a corpse can stay in mint condition 5 five years into the cataclysm and is still not a skeleton yet. Also what does the goo use for energy? Beware I’ve still haven’t survived the labs yet, those turrets are vicious.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but, isn’t it the goo that makes the player mutate? Making zombies grow claws and tails seems better than turning into goo monsters and blobs. It also makes more sense to me that the goo would repair its host, if it could just make limbs of goo, it would probably just digest it’s host and make it’s own body of goo.

Instead of mutating every zombie in your bubble individually, there could be zones with their own checks and each check could happen every week or so, that way there isn’t even more lag for large densities of zombies. The checks should probably check things outside your bubble, not sure how feasible that is code-wise though.

I’m not sure if packs of lizard/ beast/ tentacle zombies fit the game’s theme though. You would probably need to think of new units for every evolution of zombie. This thread has some ideas that could be applied to evolving zombies.

Edit: I meant that if zones or another grouping method is used, there would be individual checks for which zombies in that area evolve, and not every single zombie evolving simultaneously.

5

I think evolving was proposed already and even PR’ed but the devs shot it down, saying that most people play too short games to even notice it.

6

the zombies aren t dead.
the goo doesn t let it rot afaik.
you can see them with infrared vision so they have body heat and are probably not much less alive then yourself.
they mutate: meaning there are life cells that can mutate.
i view z as humans that lost theire mind by dieing . whats dead of theire body is the brain(probably) and whatever got damged leading to death which is then substituted by the blob to keep the body moving ( why would it substitute any organ of a dead thing).
I am not sure how it replaces the need to breath though.

I could be wrong though ^^ this is my understanding of the blob .

7

[quote=“Valpo, post:6, topic:8060”]the zombies aren t dead.
the goo doesn t let it rot afaik.
you can see them with infrared vision so they have body heat and are probably not much less alive then yourself.
they mutate: meaning there are life cells that can mutate.
i view z as humans that lost theire mind by dieing . whats dead of theire body is the brain(probably) and whatever got damged leading to death which is then substituted by the blob to keep the body moving ( why would it substitute any organ of a dead thing).
I am not sure how it replaces the need to breath though.

I could be wrong though ^^ this is my understanding of the blob .[/quote]

Ok, if they have the blob and have heat, then MAYBE there’s DNA available to make useful mutations and growth changes for zombies. Following that line of thought, i agree with zombies evolving with time. We don’t need the same mutation trees that we have, if the zombies became better in their specific abilities, and with some better attributes, it would be enough of a challenge, and keeping the zombie flavor.

As zombie brutes/hulks having more fighting abilites, or smoker zombies having a wider area of smoke + more effects caused by the smoke, necromancers accelerating the evolution and so on.

About they becoming goo… they should get material from somewhere, and i guess the goo could do it. Not spoiling how, but it could. I’m just against they becoming beings of goo, mainly :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, since it’s about making the game harder, as it is now, static players don’t have much tension after a certain point: you create your well protected base and this is it, so it would be nice if the evolution effect could be applied in hordes, and we could have hordes of OTHER KINDS of monsters. Maybe a triffid horde, based in that rolling plants in deserts?

8

[quote=“Valpo, post:6, topic:8060”]the zombies aren t dead.
the goo doesn t let it rot afaik.
you can see them with infrared vision so they have body heat and are probably not much less alive then yourself.
they mutate: meaning there are life cells that can mutate.
i view z as humans that lost theire mind by dieing . whats dead of theire body is the brain(probably) and whatever got damged leading to death which is then substituted by the blob to keep the body moving ( why would it substitute any organ of a dead thing).
I am not sure how it replaces the need to breath though.

I could be wrong though ^^ this is my understanding of the blob .[/quote]

No, the zombies are actually dead. The goo uses the dead body as a puppet so it can survive in our dimension.

9

Is that stated anywhere specificly or what makes you think this is the truth?

10

It’s also, from my Very Ignorant point of view, easy to code?

I think it would be a GREAT addition, and one that does not change any game mechanics, just make the zombies harder and actually, a bit more interesting.

11

I agree with you on this. Having lots of new end game zombies would be quite a lot of fun for the seasoned veteran characters. Also I feel pretty awesome knowing that my thread was linked :smiley: (First time that’s ever happened) Though, as a question, maybe evolved zombies should only appear in wondering hordes, and very rarely as static enemies themselves. (Also I think something that could be done is add smaller packs of hordes, that are more common than the huge hordes that you normally find. This would keep the game more interesting in that it would allow you to find more evolved zombies.

Finally, how many tiers do you think each zombie should have? Do you think traits should be able to go onto a host of zombies (making them unique/RNG) or do you feel that each tier of zombie should be it’s own unit outright?

12

I agree with you on this. Having lots of new end game zombies would be quite a lot of fun for the seasoned veteran characters. Also I feel pretty awesome knowing that my thread was linked :smiley: (First time that’s ever happened) Though, as a question, maybe evolved zombies should only appear in wondering hordes, and very rarely as static enemies themselves. (Also I think something that could be done is add smaller packs of hordes, that are more common than the huge hordes that you normally find. This would keep the game more interesting in that it would allow you to find more evolved zombies.

Finally, how many tiers do you think each zombie should have? Do you think traits should be able to go onto a host of zombies (making them unique/RNG) or do you feel that each tier of zombie should be it’s own unit outright?[/quote]

Don’t know about evolved only showing up in hordes, but it would make sense: the hordes travel, and so have a more easier time into finding organic material to be fuel to their evolution, the static don’t have such luxury, and so, would need other ways to evolve, thus making their evolution to happen less. The problem here is that the players still have to be able to see hordes father than the hordes can see them, or else early survivors will be bullied multiple times by hordes that they can’t see coming or outrun.

Don’t know about number of tiers. If each tier brings new strategic elements to consider, and it’s well balanced, i’m fine with multiple ones.

And in my experience with a Minecraft mod that added traits to monsters at random, if we use the same idea here, we should have a limit in number of traits, or else randomly invincible unnescapable being will show up .-. But yeah, one or two traits in random zombies, or random groups(as small hordes of zombie dogs), then it will be interesting.

13

What if people got wanders off? That’s why I say about them evolving, even the static ones.

14

Maybe there can be some type of setting to adjust the evolved forms for both wander hordes and static zombies?

15

That’s the thing I wrote in the main post, just that the guy wrote that it should only be in the hordes. I wrote a way, I don’t know if it’s possible or not

16

Maybe there can be some type of setting to adjust the evolved forms for both wander hordes and static zombies?[/quote]

This.

Hm… evolved forms…

Mutated Brute(evolved from Zombie Brute) - Better developed muscles, a little more speed and a little better brain. No, you can’t talk with him, but he can do more attacks than just fling you around.

  • Has more HP, Melee, Dodge and Melee damage.
  • Throw attack: if it sees a survivor in range, have a chance of throwing stuff against him. Objects, and even zombies. Throwed stuff takes damage, and diferent effects can happen because of the throw(as Boomer’s range of explosion getting bigger, and Spitters throwing acid everywhere).
  • Ground Smash attack: the brute hits the ground, with strength. Chance of transforming the terrain in debris(more time to walk through, chance of losing balance) and doing AOE damage. The impact can do STUNNED and GROUNDED status.
  • Smash attack: the usual slam that sends you flying.

Mutated Shocker(evolved from Shocker Zombie) - The goo is getting more amp from the bionics, to a point that the electricity is leaving it’s body in arcs.

  • Has more HP and Electrical Melee damage.
  • Same illumination as Shocker Brute.
  • Each 4-6 turns, 1-3 sparks leave him. They can do electrical damage, and stay for 1-4 turns.
  • Electrical attack does more damage.
  • Santelmo’s Fire: while in combat, has a small chance of creating a luminous ball of bluish fire. It flies slowly around until touching something, and then explodes in a concussive blast, that can do STUNNED and GROUNDED status.

Suggestions, critics? I tried to give both interesting abilities, that can leave the player tense. Santelmo’s Fire is a RUUUN case, but it hurts more zombies than the player, so a good plan would be hitting a Mutated Shocker from afar, running and hoping a few Santelmo’s Fire thin the horde a bit.

17

Really digging those ideas Wanderer. They fit perfectly.

Mutated Bloater: more HP, random gas dispersal, and gas lingering. It no longer immediately explodes, but will pause a turn or two to expel a gas cloud then continue.

Bloated spitter: stay far away from this one! Not only does it retain its nasty acid spit, but it also erupts into a massive pool of acid when killed. Of course, you can use this to your advantage…

Bionic Behemoth: this Operator retains their martial training, but has also had its muscles augmented by the goo. Expect to be thrown, stunned, downed, and smashed into a whole new world of pain.

Feral Killer: quicker, sharper, meaner, deadlier. This monster has grown even more dangerous claws, able to rip armor to shreds. Its jump ability goes further, and its gained a nasty pounce attack that grounds you.

Strangler Zombie: This one has learned to go straight for the throat! Its arms seem to grip much tighter, and you can feel yourself suffocating…better finish it off before it gets you!

Ambushing zombie: you thought that was a still dead corpse, but as you were fleeing that feral killer, it snaked an arm out lightning quick to trip you! (…crawling zombies are hard to evolve, ok?)

18

Might as well add in some of my own ideas.

Obviously we have a couple from my last thread, but here’s some more zombies :smiley:

[T2] Digger Zombie: A feral zombie that has grown longer claws able to dig through the ground with ease. Much like the Giant Worm, this zombie will tunnel through the ground to reach you. (if possible)

[T2] Tentacle Crawler: This crawling zombie has sprouted gooey tentacles enabling it to crawl at a faster speed, as well as immobilize you with them or even disarm you.

[T2] Combustion Bloater: A bloater that has gained flammable properties to its goo. Killing it with bullets, flame, or heated weaponry will cause it to explode, and is overall not recommended. This Bloater shoots out goo at an accelerated rate causing it to catch fire and turn into a fireball of sorts which will burn the ground. (inaccurate attacks)

[T3] Combustion Bomber: Same as the Combustion Bloater, only any weapon will immediately cause this bloater to explode. Its AOE range is also bigger, and its fireball is slightly more damaging.

[T2] Injector - Trait: Zombie gains a bonus chance of infecting you.

[T3] Reverse Mosquito (Normal Zombies only): This zombie has grown a large proboscis where it’s nose once used to be. It will attempt to inject you with a high concentration of blob/zombie virus. (whatever you want to call it). Infection chance is extremely high. This type of zombie has a hard time piercing through armor.

[T2] Unpredictable Stumbling - Trait: Zombie gains bonus ranks in dodging by shuffling side to side and bending in an unpredictable manner.

[T3] Vibration Dodger - Trait: Zombie gains a large bonus in dodging by swinging wildly in an incredibly fast way. In fact its swinging so fast that your eyes are having trouble keeping up with it’s body movements. This Zombie can even dodge bullets. (though less so)

[T2] Rampaging - Trait: Stuns barely even affect this zombie. It just keeps coming.

[T3] Unstoppable - Trait (Brutes and Hulks only): Stuns don’t affect this zombie, and knock-back is practically useless… Furthermore this zombie will plow through most terrain obstacles with ease, never losing speed. You better have a plan before taking these guys on.

[T2] Essence Stealer - Trait (Master only, extremely rare): This Master zombie will repair itself partially whenever it attacks (and hits) you. Additionally, upon reaching low life the Master zombie will try to escape. If it succeeds, it will try to find another zombie to eat, gaining all of it’s (useful) traits as well as repairing it’s body to full. Kill this creature on sight, for if you don’t it will just grow stronger and stronger. (If it were to find a hulk and eat it, well then…)

19

Hey, I am really loving your ideas so far, and I am trying hard to not post the ones I have, but for now we should, like, go to the main suggestion and not branch off. I haven’t seen anyone else’s opinion? Because most people commenting there seems to like an idea like this.

20

Correction, we’d LOVE to add this, it just hasn’t happened yet. Keep the ideas coming too :slight_smile: