I would suggest we add a hard cap on how skill effects damage. At some point you ll be at max efficiency with your current skill and getting better would only make hit the target better not harder. Say we also add a soft cap at like 3 (yoiu kinda got the hang of how to aply your strength so from here on the added damage is much smaler) and hardcap at 8-10 (you are perfectly transmitting your power into the attack).
edit: I still think our base damage at str 8 is to high maybe we should tone that down as well.
And I mean non-crit damage. It doesnât make sense that you can slice through steel armor with a katana, no matter how skilled you are. Neither it makes sense that you can punch through a mountain of muscle just because you are really good at punching human-shaped walking corpses.
Critical hits add some armor piercing, but this amount is too small to ever be noticed, mostly because of that unrealistic pre-armor damage scaling.[/quote]
Actually a katana can be good at punching through armor. It is designed for that function. My friend walked up to an old car from the 1980âs that was being junked and took his katana. (itâs was tempered and forged to be used, he sharpened it). With a single thrust, he put it through several portions of the car easily. Not like, a small area, like, 1/2 way or more to the hilt. Heâs a big strong guy, but I took it and followed his instructions and I punched though 8-10 inches. Iâm just an average guy.
Thick steel? inch? Probably not. But the thickness of a old car door/trunk, is probably similar to plate and other armor. Any more and it would would have too much weight. Also itâs not just about going through the strong parts. Skill comes into place to find the weak spots. Weapon design for it was about the bevel edge geometry and design. Everything from pikes, swords, to stilettoâs for thrusting.
Western civilizations in Europe had many specialized weapons/sword for puncturing armor and weak spots. Why do you think the romanâs did so well? Gladius was a light, sharp thrusting weapon that cut through armor. Granted it wasnât always steel, but iron and bronze was fairly hard to get through.
Now a cutting edge, not direct damage, it would cause tissue damage, bruising, or rip parts off or cut straps etc even if it didnât penetrate.
The tailor kit is broken OP. You can survive easily with 2 layers of armor, for a majority of zeds. What you do come across that you cannot kill, you get into a vehicle and run them over.
I feel like anything made of leather needs itâs rating dropped by about 1/3.
A sword was never designed to punch through dedicated armor. And medieval knights used hammers with a thorn for that purpose. What could be done was putting a thin blade into weak spots of armor. But slicing or puncturing plate armor was not possible. And the complaint as i understood it was Katana slicing up tank drone.
A car door isn t armor. Its not tempered steel. Maybe there been people who made armor out of simple iron or equally bad material like bronze⌠but this is the future and we got steel. So we should work with that.
tl;dr I agree armor is messed up right now, I think it had some bugs preventing it from working right for a long time, and everything got balanced against that, then when the bugs got fixed we never adjusted the armor values back down.
[quote=âWally-kun, post:12, topic:9537â]I was thinking about that as I was thinking about how to handle internal damage, or broken bones.
You CAN get hit pretty hard, and at some point the force that makes it through the armor can make it to the bone and is sufficient to cause structural failure. So you could, theoretically, get hit with a cannonball in platemail and get your leg shattered.[/quote]
A cannonball hitting your leg is going to shear it off, plate mail or not. Power armor isnât going to do much better, even if the impact site can handle the impact, the nearest joint will not and that limb is going to go flying off, youâre dead either way. Your best bet might actually be if you get hit in the chest, youâre still going to take a LOT of damage, but if the armor can take it the chest-piece might be able to spread out the force far enough that the shock doesnât kill you. Even if you survive though, itâs liable to give you whiplash, up to and including breaking your neck, not to mention a concussion.
An impact that will send you flying (like the hulk or brute fling attack) is actually less force than is transmitted by a cannonball, those attacks were specifically added to overcome power armor, but at some point someone either nerfed the impact with the ground or buffed power armor to fully negate the damage. A major thing that should be happening there is wrenching your limbs, even if the armor protects you from direct impact, youâre going to get your joints twisted around in ways they canât handle being thrown through a wall or bouncing off the ground.
[quote=âWally-kun, post:12, topic:9537â]I thought about having a certain threshold of damage being delivered to your outer limbs that has a chance to just straight up break it, but itâd have to be so large that it could only happen a couple of times naturally before that limb would be breaking anyway. Having that happen to your head or torso would also make sense, but might make the early game even harder, which is something I donât want. Random insta-kills are something Iâm very leery about suggesting.
Internal damage could be a thing though. If x damage happens then you have a chance to get the broken rib condition, which gives you a flat pain penalty that canât go down below that limit until you fix whatever was broken. Maybe that happens to limbs: instead of outright being broken and unusable, the condition of a broken bone means you can never have the health of that limb go above a given health value, and constantly gives off a flat pain value which canât be lowered until the condition is removed. Severity of these breaks can vary and are somewhat random. Maybe itâs only a bit off the end (a fracture); maybe it makes it this side of being completely unusable.[/quote]
Another way to do that is having damage (especially bashing damage) above a certain threshold just cause shock damage that armor canât stop, period
The problem with internal bleeding is thereâs not a good way to accelerate healing it, other than coagulants perhaps. Not saying Iâm against it in general, but lethal levels of internal bleeding are going to be decidedly un-fun as thereâs nothing you can do about it.
Nope. It still scales indefinitely.
Critical hits add some armor piercing, but this amount is too small to ever be noticed, mostly because of that unrealistic pre-armor damage scaling.[/quote]
Crit damage multiplier got moved to after armor was applied a while back, we can do the same with the skill multipliers, although we probably want some amount of skill-based armor penetration, possibly only for certain weapons.
Car bodies are not remotely comparable to plate mail, they arenât designed to resist impact.
Maybe it would be better to use skill to determine wheter armor is bypasssed completely by avoiding the coverage⌠saying you hit a weak spot(then again i dunno if creatures have a coverage value⌠i doubt it ).
Other then that skill enhacing your abillity to put your strength into a weapon and increasing its damage that way will also help you penetrate natural damage resistance or armor. I am not sure how it works right now but i think skill should only effect the dmg and the hit/crit chance.
Armor pen should be dependent on the weapon⌠well maybe if you would asume that someone who wields a spear and pokes something with the not pointy end⌠well you could say armor pen is reduced by skill lvl in that case⌠hmmmmm maybe there is some skill influence but i can t imagine how to simulate this satisfactory for now.
Would borrow from the best rpg out there, Runequest.
What that means is that you get a penetrating/smashing/cutting hit as a crit doing double damage vs the armour.
[quote=âKryxx, post:22, topic:9537â]Actually a katana can be good at punching through armor. It is designed for that function.[/quote]Yeah. No it isnât.
[quote=âKryxx, post:22, topic:9537â]My friend walked up to an old car from the 1980âs that was being junked and took his katana. (itâs was tempered and forged to be used, he sharpened it). With a single thrust, he put it through several portions of the car easily. Not like, a small area, like, 1/2 way or more to the hilt. Heâs a big strong guy, but I took it and followed his instructions and I punched though 8-10 inches. Iâm just an average guy.
Thick steel? inch? Probably not. But the thickness of a old car door/trunk, is probably similar to plate and other armor. Any more and it would would have too much weight. Also itâs not just about going through the strong parts. Skill comes into place to find the weak spots. Weapon design for it was about the bevel edge geometry and design. Everything from pikes, swords, to stilettoâs for thrusting.[/quote]Car bodies are made from extremely thin, flexible sheets. Hell, if itâs from the 80s itâs close to 40 years old, you could kick holes in it. Itâs not even remotely comparable to armour.
Plate armour is inflexible and structured in a way designed to deflect most of the force of the blow. A thrust from even a specialised weapon would just skitter off 99% of the time, with a katana youâd just ruin the point (contrary to popular belief, a traditional katanaâs construction leaves a lot to be desired materials wise).
Thrusting weapons werenât designed to puncture plate armour. They were designed to be thrust into the gaps between plates and defeat the layered cloth and/or riveted chain links beneath. They were designed this way as even a simple cloth gambeson is actually quite difficult to cut and slash through.
Historically, armour worked extremely well. They wouldnât wear it if some chump with a sword could just randomly cut through it.
ââŚother than coagulants perhapsâ I served fairly recently as a military medic and Iâve never heard of using coagulants to treat internal bleeding, unless the patient has been so thoroughly jacked up that âinternalâ vs âexternalâ is really just a semantic difference. I may be wrong, but I believe the only good shots you have at recovery from severe internal hemorrhage are 1) skilled surgery before you bleed out and, 2) divine intervention.
ââŚare going to be decidedly un-funâ
I mean, this is a matter of taste. I donât think we should take it as a given that lethal, irreparable internal bleeding wonât be fun. Iâm into it.
Final note:
I think itâs worth considering that power armour specifically could make a character significantly more vulnerable to the joint-wrenching impacts of attacks like the Hulkâs throw; the limp, naked human body is reasonably well-equipped to roll, stretch, and deform according to the demands of the moment. Not so if itâs wearing armor. Iâm thinking of shoulders getting popped out of joint and held in that twisted posture by power armor that has been jammed and twisted itself.
