Guns, too many? Too few?

FunsizeNinja123 · 2013-12-18T21:04:51.000Z

asdfzxc:

This is sort of implemented already. Guns have a hidden durability stat that determines how likely they are to misfire.

Has played Cata since 0.5
Never had a gun jam on him

John_Candlebury · 2013-12-18T21:31:36.000Z

^ And I can confirm that. I think that in all the time I have played (you know those old times when you still had to compile the game yourself) I think I had only had a nail gun jam on me once or twice at most.

Rivet · 2013-12-18T21:37:59.000Z

The chance for a firearm to jam is quite low, even for low-durability weapons. I’m not surprised that some of you have never encountered it in-game.

But few would like it if we made it happen more often, either.

HunterAlpha1 · 2013-12-18T21:42:15.000Z

instead of durability(most guns can have thousands of rounds put through them before they break) how about a cleaning system instead? if you don’t clean your weapon often enough they become gummed up, with loss of accuracy, stopping power, and increased likelihood to jam or otherwise malfunction. some guns can operate when dirty better than others, take the AK47 vs. M16 for example.

items that can be used to clean your guns would include rags, oil or gasoline, and a cleaning rod which could be crafted from a pipe or scrap metal.

as for magazines(vs. clips, get your lingo right!) i definitely approve of adding realism to reloading. for balance though, each firearm you find should come loaded with at least one magazine(even if it’s empty), because we don’t want to have the problem with not being able to find mags for our guns. it would also be more realistic this way, because every gun you find in a gun store or military bunker will have an empty mag in the well, and guns you find lying out in the open will still have a mag in them because the last thought on it’s previous owner’s mind would’ve been to remove the magazine after his last mag ran dry.

FunsizeNinja123 · 2013-12-18T21:53:15.000Z

Lol Hunter we’ve all been saying mags. Anyway, how will we know that there’s a mag in it?

A simple solution for my question (I think) would be to have the gun say (0) at the end if it has a mag.

So like: Glock 19 (0) for one with a mag (But empty) and “Glock 19” For one without a mag.

dwarfkoala · 2013-12-18T21:54:59.000Z

Clayton:

There should be an in-depth, realistic magazine and clip system. We should have to collect clips and pre-load them before battle. It’s realistic. There isn’t a hidden, unlimited supply of magazines a la’ Call of Duty.

I’m liking this idea, actually.

DG123 · 2013-12-18T21:57:36.000Z

Given how slow the reloading is (and how it gets interrupted by enemy attack), I assume that in game at the moment, standard reloading means removing your magazine and loading individual bullets into it then putting it back in.

There is already an option for reloading from a spare fully loaded magazine. It’s the “extra mag” gun attachment.

Although it would definitely make more sense if you could reload several magazines in a row in the same way.

HunterAlpha1 · 2013-12-18T22:27:56.000Z

FunsizeNinja123:

Lol Hunter we’ve all been saying mags.[/quote][quote=“dwarfkoala, post:126, topic:4531”][quote=“Clayton, post:118, topic:4531”]There should be an in-depth, realistic magazine and clip system. We should have to collect clips and pre-load them before battle. It’s realistic. There isn’t a hidden, unlimited supply of magazines a la’ Call of Duty.

I’m liking this idea, actually.[/quote]not everyone.

[quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:125, topic:4531”]Anyway, how will we know that there’s a mag in it?

A simple solution for my question (I think) would be to have the gun say (0) at the end if it has a mag.

So like: Glock 19 (0) for one with a mag (But empty) and “Glock 19” For one without a mag.[/quote] sounds good to me!

Bonevomit · 2013-12-18T22:35:47.000Z

[center]You’ll get my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands![/center]
[center][/center]

Ferodaktyl · 2013-12-18T22:37:52.000Z

one quick fix that come to mind would be to reduce the frequency of criticals, thus making the ammo/gun types more relevant. Something along the line - 0 skill = 5% crit and increasing 5%/skill ? Also making some monster more dmg resistant, depending on their total mass (i would face a dog with a gun, but i’m not sure about a bear or a hulk, or a fking DDA Moose), or making them harder/easier to hit depending on their size/speed.

edit

[quote=“Bonevomit, post:129, topic:4531”][center]You’ll get my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands![/center]
snip[/quote]
truly a relevant reply

asdfzxc · 2013-12-18T22:46:20.000Z

Criticals are actually not a big problem right now, but headshots are making pistols ridiculously overpowered.

Ferodaktyl · 2013-12-18T22:48:26.000Z

i always assumed headshots are criticals for guns. I may be wrong though. If so, make headshots criticals AND reduce them

DG123 · 2013-12-18T22:49:27.000Z

But to be fair, in real life, if the enemy isn’t wearing body armour, a pistol is generally as effective as a rifle shot. If not more so, since a lot of military rifle rounds are designed to pierce armour and actually make a small hole in flesh.

A headshot is always going to work well no matter what you shot them with.

So I don’t think pistols are overpowered… Unless they’re too accurate at longer ranges, but I don’t recall that being the case in any version I’ve played.

HunterAlpha1 · 2013-12-18T22:50:27.000Z

[quote=“Bonevomit, post:129, topic:4531”][center]You’ll get my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands![/center]
[center][/center][/quote]they better bring some leather gloves, because the barrel’s gonna be a little hot

Ferodaktyl · 2013-12-18T23:06:21.000Z

DG123:

So I don’t think pistols are overpowered… Unless they’re too accurate at longer ranges, but I don’t recall that being the case in any version I’ve played.

really ?

[URL=http://s1050.photobucket.com/user/Ferodaktyl/media/cdda/crits.png.html][/URL]

DG123 · 2013-12-18T23:12:26.000Z

Hm, that is a lot of pain it’s handing out.

But then again, I can’t imagine much more effective vs a zombie than a .45 round to the head.

So it seems fair enough really.

ted · 2013-12-18T23:23:39.000Z

[quote=“DG123, post:127, topic:4531”]Given how slow the reloading is (and how it gets interrupted by enemy attack), I assume that in game at the moment, standard reloading means removing your magazine and loading individual bullets into it then putting it back in.

There is already an option for reloading from a spare fully loaded magazine. It’s the “extra mag” gun attachment.

Although it would definitely make more sense if you could reload several magazines in a row in the same way.[/quote]

The reload times in the game are meant to represent replacing with a different magazine. It’s slow to represent unfamiliarity, because you reload much faster with more skill. It’s slow because reloading in <1 turns would make the reloading mechanic mostly pointless. It’s slow because one turn is generally not six seconds for short actions, unless you think it also takes 5-6 seconds to move one meter and 30 seconds for a grenade to go off.

EkarusRyndren · 2013-12-18T23:26:23.000Z

[quote=“ted, post:137, topic:4531”][quote=“DG123, post:127, topic:4531”]Given how slow the reloading is (and how it gets interrupted by enemy attack), I assume that in game at the moment, standard reloading means removing your magazine and loading individual bullets into it then putting it back in.

There is already an option for reloading from a spare fully loaded magazine. It’s the “extra mag” gun attachment.

Although it would definitely make more sense if you could reload several magazines in a row in the same way.[/quote]

The reload times in the game are meant to represent replacing with a different magazine. It’s slow to represent unfamiliarity, because you reload much faster with more skill. It’s slow because reloading in <1 turns would make the reloading mechanic mostly pointless. It’s slow because one turn is generally not six seconds for short actions, unless you think it also takes 5-6 seconds to move one meter and 30 seconds for a grenade to go off.[/quote]

The reload times in the game are supposed to (as I understand it) indicate the time it takes (in the case of a mag-fed weapon) to eject the mag, and load loose rounds into the mag, then load it again.

DG123 · 2013-12-18T23:34:05.000Z

EkarusRyndren:

The reload times in the game are supposed to (as I understand it) indicate the time it takes (in the case of a mag-fed weapon) to eject the mag, and load loose rounds into the mag, then load it again.

That’s my interpretation of it too. It makes very little sense if you get prevented from simply replacing your magazine with a loaded magazine by being hit.

And with the “extra mag” attachment, you DON’T get prevented from reloading when you get hit.

So my conclusion is that standard reloading can’t be simply swapping out mags.

Also, I think I’m right in saying that the extra mag can only be put on certain weapons.

Certain weapons, of course, don’t load with magazines.

ted · 2013-12-19T00:08:30.000Z

DG123:

[quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:138, topic:4531”]The reload times in the game are supposed to (as I understand it) indicate the time it takes (in the case of a mag-fed weapon) to eject the mag, and load loose rounds into the mag, then load it again.

That’s my interpretation of it too. It makes very little sense if you get prevented from simply replacing your magazine with a loaded magazine by being hit.

And with the “extra mag” attachment, you DON’T get prevented from reloading when you get hit.

So my conclusion is that standard reloading can’t be simply swapping out mags.

Also, I think I’m right in saying that the extra mag can only be put on certain weapons.

Certain weapons, of course, don’t load with magazines.[/quote]

Getting hit interrupts reloading for gameplay reasons, not realism ones.

The spare mag mod wasn’t around when reload times were first designed, and isn’t reasonably consistent with other time costs. It was obviously designed with the idea that regular reloading involves refilling a single magazine, because it reduces the reload time by a huge amount. The issue is that the resulting reload times are absurdly fast compared to other actions. An unskilled user can reload using a spare mag twice in the time it takes someone to walk one meter, or ten times in the time it takes for a grenade to go off, and skilled users reload much faster than unskilled ones. Reloading a gun with a spare mag is often faster than firing the weapon once.

Another piece of evidence: unloading a weapon (remove the magazine and put it away) takes half the time of reloading (remove magazine and put it away, take second magazine and put it in).