Flamethrower and Molotov nerfs?

[Pandromidal]

1. The Molotov Cocktail recipe seams to have changed to no longer include whiskey, vodka, rum, tequila, gin, or triple as possible ingredients? Does anyone know why this was changed? It appears you now need to craft denatured alcohol or ethanol from other kinds of alcohol first.
2. I tried lighting a Molotov in the rain. Is this just not possible?
3. The simple flamethrower previously made a 3x3 fireball. Now it’s just a single square. Is there any weapons that replicates the old behavior and works in the rain? (preferably something craftable)

[pisskop]

Yup.

Nerfs all over the place.

Molotovs have a chance to go out after being lit. i think but dont know if its impossible to light it in rain, but its a right pain and a risk to try anytime, not just in rain. I still use them, but I carry a backup flashbang if possible.

flamers, yea, got nerfed hard. Fire was a fantasic weapon, and even matches and lighters got nerfed. Military grade flamers do the normal stuff.

[Labtop_215]

Artifacts sometimes have the fireball effect without raining fire down upon you.

I have one that I use sparingly since it also gives me Adrenalin, which can kill me if I use it too much too quickly.

[Tawarochir]

Why were liquors removed from the recipe? To my knowledge any alcohol of at least 80 proof will burn sufficiently.

[Pandromidal]

Why were liquors removed from the recipe? To my knowledge any alcohol of at least 80 proof will burn sufficiently.

Exactly!

[Tawarochir]

[quote=“Tawarochir, post:4, topic:12256”]Why were liquors removed from the recipe? To my knowledge any alcohol of at least 80 proof will burn sufficiently.

Exactly![/quote]
As in “that’s exactly why” or “that’s exactly what I was thinking”? :v

[Pandromidal]

[quote=“Pandromidal, post:5, topic:12256”][quote=“Tawarochir, post:4, topic:12256”]Why were liquors removed from the recipe? To my knowledge any alcohol of at least 80 proof will burn sufficiently.

Exactly![/quote]
As in “that’s exactly why” or “that’s exactly what I was thinking”? :v[/quote]

As in I agree with you.

[Tawarochir]

[quote=“Pandromidal, post:7, topic:12256”]-snip-
As in I agree with you.[/quote]
Ah, I see.

So anyway, I’ve done some research on the subject since then. The “80 proof rule” is a rule of thumb that anything of at least 80 proof (in more exact terms, 40% or so alcohol) will reliably ignite. The only liquor in the game that, under American standards, doesn’t necessarily have to be at least 80 proof/40% alcohol to be sold under its name is triple sec (according to Wikipedia minimum 15%, max 40%) and some types of flavored whiskey (flavored whiskey is usually aimed at ‘softer’ drinkers and as such has a lower alcohol volume; on the flip side, there are some overproof whiskeys that have up to 75% alcohol.)

True Molotovs are typically made with either extremely concentrated (usually pure or almost pure) alcohols, or gasoline or other petroleum products, but with non-pure alcohols that burn well you can make one if you absolutely have to. If it burns (again, 80 proof rule,) it can work pretty well, although gasoline is still likely preferable.

In game terms, I think this is a really needless nerf anyway. Molotovs were always more or less early-game weapons, absolute backups if you had to make a quick getaway or the like. By the time you get to a reasonable level of fabrication, you can make grenades that are more or less objectively superior (larger area of effect, take up less inventory space, probably lighter and thereby easier to throw.)

If, for some reason, it is absolutely necessary that Molotovs be only craftable with gasoline or pure alcohols, I would suggest that another version be added: a “makeshift Molotov” crafted with liquor that has a greater chance of failing to light, or possibly entirely transplanting the possibility of failure from the true Molotov to the makeshift one. I would also recommend, in this case, adding a “high proof whiskey” variant of whiskey that spawns more rarely than “typical” whiskey which can be used to create true Molotovs.

[Gnorse]

[quote=“Tawarochir, post:8, topic:12256”][quote=“Pandromidal, post:7, topic:12256”]-snip-
As in I agree with you.[/quote]
Ah, I see.

So anyway, I’ve done some research on the subject since then. The “80 proof rule” is a rule of thumb that anything of at least 80 proof (in more exact terms, 40% or so alcohol) will reliably ignite. The only liquor in the game that, under American standards, doesn’t necessarily have to be at least 80 proof/40% alcohol to be sold under its name is triple sec (according to Wikipedia minimum 15%, max 40%) and some types of flavored whiskey (flavored whiskey is usually aimed at ‘softer’ drinkers and as such has a lower alcohol volume; on the flip side, there are some overproof whiskeys that have up to 75% alcohol.)

True Molotovs are typically made with either extremely concentrated (usually pure or almost pure) alcohols, or gasoline or other petroleum products, but with non-pure alcohols that burn well you can make one if you absolutely have to. If it burns (again, 80 proof rule,) it can work pretty well, although gasoline is still likely preferable.

In game terms, I think this is a really needless nerf anyway. Molotovs were always more or less early-game weapons, absolute backups if you had to make a quick getaway or the like. By the time you get to a reasonable level of fabrication, you can make grenades that are more or less objectively superior (larger area of effect, take up less inventory space, probably lighter and thereby easier to throw.)

If, for some reason, it is absolutely necessary that Molotovs be only craftable with gasoline or pure alcohols, I would suggest that another version be added: a “makeshift Molotov” crafted with liquor that has a greater chance of failing to light, or possibly entirely transplanting the possibility of failure from the true Molotov to the makeshift one. I would also recommend, in this case, adding a “high proof whiskey” variant of whiskey that spawns more rarely than “typical” whiskey which can be used to create true Molotovs.[/quote]

actually , molotoves themselves are makeshift versions of actual incirator grenades
you cant have makeshifts of makeshifts

[Tawarochir]

I know that Molotov cocktails are makeshift incendiary grenades. Makeshift Molotov cocktails made out of less-than-recommended substances would make more sense than being totally unable to make them with anything less than petrol or pure alcohol.

[bostltch]

The “80 proof rule” is a rule of thumb that anything of at least 80 proof (in more exact terms, 40% or so alcohol) will reliably ignite.

Is it really 80 proof that’ll do it? Or are you using reliably loosely? I know that more than a few times my friends and I have tried to play with fire and vodka (honestly not good ideas but whatta ya gonna do?) and it was more than 80 proof, it was 100ish or somewhere around there and for the life of us, we couldn’t get it to light up. Maybe we were just doing it wrong who knows.

[pisskop]

just add 180 proof to it and lets agogo barhopping after pregaming lit shots.

.>
<.<

… not that ive ever done that. in a zombie apocolypse.

[Tawarochir]

[quote=“Tawarochir, post:8, topic:12256”]The “80 proof rule” is a rule of thumb that anything of at least 80 proof (in more exact terms, 40% or so alcohol) will reliably ignite.

Is it really 80 proof that’ll do it? Or are you using reliably loosely? I know that more than a few times my friends and I have tried to play with fire and vodka (honestly not good ideas but whatta ya gonna do?) and it was more than 80 proof, it was 100ish or somewhere around there and for the life of us, we couldn’t get it to light up. Maybe we were just doing it wrong who knows.[/quote]
Dunno. Like I said, a makeshift molotov would be a nice idea, one that’s harder to light but can be used in desperate situations/earlygame.

[kevin.granade]

“It can burn” isn’t remotely close to “it’s a good incendiary fuel”, not to mention that not even pure alcohol burns hot enough by itself to have the effect a molotov has in-game, the existing (post-nerf) recipe is already ridiculously generous with respect to difficulty to create and efficacy.

[Dot12321]

Why were liquors removed from the recipe? To my knowledge any alcohol of at least 80 proof will burn sufficiently.

I’ve tried lighting 100 proof whiskey on fire IRL and it wouldn’t light
Triple definitely makes sense why it was nerfed. There should be more liquors that are appropriate for making molotovs - top shelf /high proof liquors

[Artyom177]

Well I thought they were more fun before the nerf. They were easy to craft and packed a punch. But were not very good for keeping loot and other stuff you might want intact. PLUS higher level enemies just shrug off the flames and can take multiple Molotovs to the face before going down. And sometimes the Molotov doesn’t even ignite.

Didn’t that seem pretty balanced to you?

Plus afterwards if you were looking for a drink you could take the rag out and drown all your worries away.

[Pandromidal]

Quick update: Original question was about flamethrower nerf, so I thought that I would mention that the FTK-93 fusion gun while not strickly speaking a flamethrower makes a pretty powerful flamethower type weapon >:D

[ZoneWizard]

Keep in mind there are only a few states in the region the game is set in that even allows over 40 proof…or was that percent?..uh anyway. You can’t buy Ever Clear in most states up here in real life. While it ironic as it seems though…is not difficult to get at certain liqueur stores. Seriously I can buy a 750ml(average wine bottle size) of 95% Ever Clear in a few locations I shall not say where lol

For obvious reasons…I don’t wanna have to go a few states over to get that stuff

So as it is. Not being able to use standard alcohol for mollys is accurate. Ethanol to make mollys is uncommon but easy enough to find. Plus as a matter of fact, common in personal home bars and alcohol collections. Pretty much as it stands seems accurate tbh.

[pabrams]

actually , molotoves themselves are makeshift versions of actual incirator grenades
you cant have makeshifts of makeshifts

Huh? Why the heck not?

[PogoMarimo]

I don’t have my computer available, but isn’t gasoline a possible ingredient for molotovs in game? It’s a terribly easy resource to get early game (A nearby car and a rubber hose from a fridge) and is far more reasonable than the vast majority of hard alcohols. I will say though, if the distilled alcohols are to remain removed from the recipe then the reliability should be bumped up a bit–Gasoline, ethanol and the like are very reliable fuel sources in all conditions but a downpour. There is a reason not just partisans but G.I.s would use them in WW2 to knock out tanks. An oil soaked rag will go up with a bit of sparks let alone an open flame, and stay that way unless doused by water or hit by some serious winds. Finnish troops used them to amazing results in winter conditions to deliver consistent hits on the tank engine compartments during The Winter War, for instance.