Chemistry Mod/Alcohol Container Spawning process

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

Aenye added some chemical items a while back, but they left before their work was done. Here’s some of their stuff:

Facility items 002 - chemicals [WIP]

Facility items 003 chemicals (reprise)

Facility items 004 gunpowders & stuff [WIP][CR]

[NJPimental]

I can look into using lua, though my goal was to try to avoid using it, at least for now. Eventually I will look into gasses and making/collecting them, though honestly it’d probably have to be either rather unrealistic or super complicated.

Making acetylene from calcium carbide would be a good reaction, and I could even throw in the super sensitive copper(II) acetylide explosive. To be honest I haven’t looked into explosives and gunpowder mechanisms in the game yet, and first I want to fix the easier recipes.

Regarding gunpowder/reloading ammo - there’s like three mods at least for this already, right? I’d like to just pick one to make a mod-dependent side mod for, to make the gunpowder recipe compatible with this mod and realistic, since I don’t want to try my hand at yet another reloaded ammo mod.

I will look into the Aenye stuff soon, and more into gasses/explosives/gunpowder(s)&reloading, etc., but first in the time I’ll have tomorrow I want to fix recipes for the general chem-related stuff, and maybe the drug-chem. Sorry for my own delays in the project. I just finished an exam in quantitative chemical analysis and in Spanish, and don’t have my organic chemistry exam till next Monday, so I’ll have the weekend to study for that and do some cata-chemistry

A side note on gasses like butane/propane - I wanted this mod to bring in realism, not make more unrealistic items…but…I can definitely mod in propane and butane as liquids. Perhaps later with some lua I or someone else can make them behave like gasses when out of the bottle. I’m not sure if the ‘gas’ phase is even a thing in cataclysm, any info there would be great (though I can look into it myself later). Also, perhaps some of the more flammable chems could be added as sort-of analogs of gasoline - not sure how gasoline works either, haven’t seen its item entry yet - but - nitromethane, anyone?

NJ

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

I will look into the Aenye stuff soon, and more into gasses/explosives/gunpowder(s)&reloading, etc., but first in the time I’ll have tomorrow I want to fix recipes for the general chem-related stuff, and maybe the drug-chem. Sorry for my own delays in the project. I just finished an exam in quantitative chemical analysis and in Spanish, and don’t have my organic chemistry exam till next Monday, so I’ll have the weekend to study for that and do some cata-chemistry

Gunpowder/explosives. etc… is nowhere as important as any work making ingame chemistry useful. Thank you for doing this and good luck!

[kevin.granade]

Do avoid LUA, it’s still under the axe, plus I very much doubt it will do what you need it to.

Regarding gunpowder (or rather nitrocellulose derivitaves), I don’t have a problem with it being craftable as a high level recipe, but my understanding is it’s a very exacting process that isn’t something an amateur should be dealing with. I don’t want it added without the requisite level of difficulty and risk, but if those details can be handled, I’m all for it.

[Zhilkin]

Why do you need Lua for recipes, anyway?

[NJPimental]

Gunpowder/explosives. etc… is nowhere as important as any work making ingame chemistry useful. Thank you for doing this and good luck!

Thanks - I think I will avoid gunpowder crafting/implementation/support-for-reloading-gunpowder-mods. As for explosives, I might throw in some of that later - but it would probably just be alongside fixing the current explosives chemistry.

Do avoid LUA, it’s still under the axe, plus I very much doubt it will do what you need it to.

Regarding gunpowder (or rather nitrocellulose derivitaves), I don’t have a problem with it being craftable as a high level recipe, but my understanding is it’s a very exacting process that isn’t something an amateur should be dealing with. I don’t want it added without the requisite level of difficulty and risk, but if those details can be handled, I’m all for it.

Will do. When it comes to balance/skill level, I’ll keep notes of some of the things I have questions for so that I can make sure things are suitably difficult to do. When I go about chemistry, I always end up thinking ‘oh, this is super easy, I could do it right now and be done in 30 minutes’, but the average person usually has a better gauge of how difficult a reaction would be for a typical survivor to do.

Why do you need Lua for recipes, anyway?

I wasn’t going to use it for recipes, but to make things like explosives and gunpowder and gasses like butane have more in-game functionality. But as I mentioned before, I think for now I’ll stick with making recipes realistic.
NJ

[NJPimental]

A little update, school has kept me busier than I first thought I would be. Working on the first of the recipe fixes. Here they are:

{
  "type" : "recipe",
  "result": "poppy_sleep",
  "category": "CC_CHEM",
  "subcategory": "CSC_CHEM_DRUGS",
  "skill_used": "cooking",
  "skills_required": [ "survival", 1 ],
  "difficulty": 2,
  "override": true,
  "time": 5000,
  "book_learn": [["textbook_chemistry", 2] , ["adv_chemistry", 2] , 

["pocket_survival", 3] , ["atomic_survival", 2] , ["textbook_survival", 2] , 

["survival_book", 3]],
  "qualities":[
    {"id":"CHEM","level":2}
  ], "tools": [
    [ [ "surface_heat", 2, "LIST" ] ]
  ],
  "components": [
    [
      [ "chem_ethanol", 1 ],
      [ "denat_alcohol", 1 ]
    ],
    [
      [ "poppy_bud", 2 ]
    ]
  ]
}

{
  "type" : "recipe",
  "result": "poppy_pain",
  "category": "CC_CHEM",
  "subcategory": "CSC_CHEM_DRUGS",
  "skill_used": "cooking",
  "skills_required": [ "survival", 1 ],
  "difficulty": 2,
  "override": true,
  "time": 5000,
  "book_learn": [["textbook_chemistry", 2] , ["adv_chemistry", 2] , 

["pocket_survival", 3] , ["atomic_survival", 2] , ["textbook_survival", 2] , 

["survival_book", 3]],
  "qualities":[
    {"id":"CHEM","level":2}
  ], "tools": [
    [ [ "surface_heat", 2, "LIST" ] ]
  ],
  "components": [
    [
      [ "chem_acetone", 1]
    ],
    [
      [ "poppy_bud", 3 ]
    ]
  ]
}

{
  "type" : "recipe",
  "result": "fungicide",
  "category": "CC_CHEM",
  "subcategory": "CSC_CHEM_CHEMICALS",
  "skill_used": "cooking",
  "skills_required": [ "survival", 1 ],
  "difficulty": 2,
  "override": true,
  "time": 5000,
  "book_learn": [["textbook_chemistry", 2] , ["adv_chemistry", 2] , 

["pocket_survival", 2] , ["atomic_survival", 2] , ["textbook_survival", 1] , 

["survival_book", 3] , [ "recipe_labchem", 2]],
  "qualities":[
    {"id":"CHEM","level":2}
  ], "tools": [
    [ [ "surface_heat", 2, "LIST" ] ]
  ],
  "components": [
    [
      [ "chem_sulphuric_acid", 1 ]
    ],
    [
      [ "copper", 100 ],
      [ "scrap_copper", 1 ]
    ],
    [
      [ "bleach", 5 ]
    ]
  ]
}

{
  "type" : "recipe",
  "result": "chem_sulphuric_acid",
  "category": "CC_CHEM",
  "subcategory": "CSC_CHEM_CHEMICALS",
  "skill_used": "cooking",
  "difficulty": 3,
  "override": true,
  "time": 10000,
  "autolearn": true,
  "qualities":[{"id":"BOIL","level":2}, {"id":"CHEM","level":2}],
  "tools": [ [ [ "surface_heat", 10, "LIST" ] ] ],
  "components": [ [ [ "acid", 2 ] ] ]
}

Minor changes to the poppy preparations, they are more realistic (use solvents to extract active compounds, the better solvent giving the more potent of the two).

Most major change is one people have brought up a lot on the forum I noticed: ‘acid’ is now considered dilute chem_sulphuric_acid. Whoever decided to use the non-standard way to spell that in the game is gonna drive me nuts as this project goes on, there’s no changing it now… xD I suppose this technically even adds to the game story, as it defines the clouds of gas escaping from other-dimensional cracks as sulfur oxides, and the acid rain as sulfuric acid. If anyone has a better solution for reconciling ‘acid’ with a more specific type of acid, feel free to make suggestions, but since battery acid is sulfuric acid, I thought it made sense.

More on their way. A lot of the problem is that some of the drug recipes require more complex reagents. Meth is easy, some of the drugs are too - but diazepam? Not really going to be an easy recipe for that. If there were a way, I would remove the syntheses of some of the more complex therapeutic drugs from the recipes, and make them only discoverable. In reality, in the apocalypse you wouldn’t be likely to be able to prepare them properly anyways.
As always, Thanks,
NJ

[darktoes]

If all else fails, you could make the recipe produce a “makeshift” version. Something less pure but with side effects or perhaps a similar drug with the same effect.

[dissociativity]

I feel as if black powder shots should just be clear about having risks for weapon reliability/degradation so the player can decide whether it’s worth it, unnecessary grind/cleaning mechanics are a waste of time, just assume a player with a certain amount of markmanship or other gun skills does this automatically and add a buff to reliability with gun skills adding up to at least x?

[kevin.granade]

I would remove the syntheses of some of the more complex therapeutic drugs from the recipes, and make them only discoverable.

Go ahead, plenty of room for resources to be scavenge-only.

[DeWolf]

And if Someone doesn’t like something in a mod they can always change it themselves.

[pikolinian]

There is one more problem with acid - you can get it from batteries. And you can make batteries from vinegar. so you can convert (weak) vinegar into (strong) sulphuric acid :(.

@kevin.granade Can we have Acid_Organs available from butchering Acid Zombies and/or other monsters? perhaps other chemicals too, from other kind of creatures. That way you could set up strong enemies “guarding” crucial resources.

Also, Crafting is quite bad approximation of chemistry, too. most often you set up experiment (say - one hour), let it run for some time (hours to days), often unattended (if recipe is good and tested), than get pure stuff from reaction - time consuming process, require attention or Hi Tech Equipment.
Can we have construction “chemistry bench”, which can be stuffed with starting material, turned on, and give us crude_product after long time (hours to days, depending on recipe). Crude_product would be converted to product via simple crafting. “chemistry bench” would use charcoal (low end one, only simple recipes allowed) or electricity (hi end one),

[darktoes]

It’s worth noting that you can use a blood draw kit to extract acid from acid enemy corpses. Just let one single spitter into your base, kill and smash the corpse, then you have free acid until the corpse rots entirely. Or don’t smash the corpse.

[Coolthulhu]

Can we have Acid_Organs available from butchering Acid Zombies and/or other monsters?

Acid organ harvest was the primary reason for butchery harvest system rework. Though it would be better if the harvested thing was acid, not some intermediate step with only one crafting recipe.

Can we have construction “chemistry bench”

There was one contributor trying to write something like this, but I think the PR died. It’s not an easy task, nor one that can be done in two hours.
A dedicated volunteer with mediocre skills could probably revive it and coast on protips from those who know the game code.

[Duros]

I was going to tackle this idea at some point, in my mod: "Air-Drops", "Chemical Breakdown and Re-creation", "3D Printing", and more, but got bogged down and the air-drop aspect sort of took centre stage, lol.

I graduated with a BSc in Chemistry last year, and would love to collaborate/chip in anyway I can with this project. I’ve recently found the “Lists” used in some recipes (catadda/data/json/requirements:).

If you look up the recipe in dda for hobo drink for example:
{
“type” : “recipe”,
“result”: “drink_hobo”,
“category”: “CC_FOOD”,
“subcategory”: “CSC_FOOD_DRINKS”,
“skill_used”: “cooking”,
“difficulty”: 1,
“time”: 4000,
“autolearn”: true,
“flags”: [“BLIND_HARD”],
“components”: [
[
[ “oj”, 1 ],
[ “lemonade”, 1 ],
[ “apple_cider”, 1 ],
[ “cranberry_juice”, 1 ],
[ “juice”, 1 ]
],
[ [ “weak_liquor”, 1, “LIST” ] ],
[ [ “hard_liquor_chem”, 1, “LIST” ] ]
]
},
…you’ll see that you can just add the list title name to the recipe as a component.

and if you look in the requirements folder (/cooking_components.json) you’ll see how to make the lists.

Obviously this wont work for a lot of reactions as of the reagents used determines the final product, but having a generic list of acids and one of bases for example can help if the reaction needs acidic or basic conditions, so then you don’t have to copy and paste all the known acids and bases down each time for each recipe, you can just paste something like:

“components”: [
[
[ [ “weak_alkali”, 2, “LIST” ] ],
[ [ “strong_alkili”, 1, “LIST” ] ]
]

or something.

Hope this saves you time , and good luck!

[DeWolf]

I did not know about that but it makes sense. At least now I am not reliant on acid rain for my acidic means.

[kevin.granade]

I agree about long term unattended crafting, we need a system for that

[DeWolf]

The closest thing we have to unattended crafting is the whole delayed item transform thing similar to how tanning hides in game works. I imagine it’s not ideal but other than a fermenting vat disguised as a chemistry bench it’s really all we got.

[NJPimental]

OK, sorry for the delay in reply, school, exams, yada yada yada excuses…

Thanks for all the suggestions. Personally, I’m not a fan of the chemistry bench/delayed crafting, etc - if someone else wants to incorporate that into the main game, and this mod gets made compatible - cool - but I don’t think it’s worth it, and this game is survival focused - I just wanted to give the chemistry section more variety and accuracy, I didn’t plan on adding game mechanisms, etc.

I’m definitely a fan of the crude product that needs purified method. That gives a sort of multi-step feel to the longer reactions and maybe it would even require doing a successful reaction multiple times to get enough crude to complete the second recipe for purification. I’ll look into that for the more complicated syntheses, especially the drugs and explosives.

Go ahead, plenty of room for resources to be scavenge-only.

So - I know how to make a new recipe replace an old one, and I know how to get rid of items, but how do I replace items, and how do I get rid of recipes? For example, I might need to get rid of the recipes for certain narcs that are too hard to make in the cataclysm, and I might also replace the battery item to change some of its attributes.

The whole batteries can convert lemons to sulfuric acid thing was regrettable - but there was an easy second fix - make it so you can’t make a battery that can be used in a car from a lemon… I made batteries only craftable from acid/chem_sulfuric_acid. However, with a minor exception: So, like I said earlier, this adds a tiny bit of detail to the story - but in this game non-radiated grapefruits, somewhere during the cataclysm, have had their sulfur-containing terpenes oxidized, and now contain sulfuric acid at a sufficient concentration to make a battery from. However, if there’s an easy way to, I’d like to replace this with spoiled grapefruits. I kind-of added this to the new battery recipe as a joke (see the new recipe below) but take it as making up for the fact that its harder to make batteries with this mod.

{
  "type" : "recipe",
  "result": "battery",
  "category": "CC_ELECTRONIC",
  "subcategory": "CSC_ELECTRONIC_COMPONENTS",
  "skill_used": "fabrication",
  "skills_required": [ "electronics", 1 ],
  "difficulty": 3,
  "override": true,
  "time": 5000,
  "book_learn": [[ "manual_electronics", 1 ] , [ "mag_electronics", 1 ] , [ "textbook_anarch", 2 ]],
  "qualities" : [ {"id":"SCREW","level":1} ],
  "components": [
    [
      [ "chem_sulphuric_acid", 1 ],
      [ "grapefruit", 1 ],
      [ "acid", 1 ]
    ],
    [
      [ "steel_chunk", 1 ],
      [ "knife_butter", 1 ],
      [ "knife_steak", 1 ],
      [ "bolt_steel", 1 ],
      [ "scrap", 1 ]
    ],
    [
      [ "can_drink_unsealed", 1 ],
      [ "can_food_unsealed", 1 ],
      [ "canister_empty", 1 ]
    ]
  ]
}

Thanks for the tips Duros!

I will have the update (small) incorporated to the files on my server and will repost the link here very soon. Tonight or at least some time this weekend I will do more updates to the recipes. It’s hard finding where each recipe is hidden…

Side note: I do like the idea of using brewing as a hidden mechanism behind some very long term reactions. Maybe I will do this for some of the hard to make end-game sorts of things. IDK.

NJ

[NJPimental]

OK, newest update.
http://ptp.x10.mx/chemestible_mod2.zip
Items

• nice_hard_cider - Small-batch local-made hard cider.
• cyser - A mead made with added apples. Spicy. One hot sister.
• beer_keg - Bulk, cheap beer makes any party better. Too bad this isnt a party.
• whiskey_barrel - Made from, by, and for real Southern colonels! (Same description as bottled whiskey)
• energy_drink_nitrous - Grapefruit energy drink, may cause racecar-driving hallucinations.
• tabasco - Brings a little spice to life. Can wake you up on those hard mornings.

Recipes

• poppy_sleep - requires 2 poppy_bud and 1 denat_alcohol or 1 chem_ethanol.
• poppy_pain - same as above, but uses acetone instead of ethanol source.
• fungicide - now made from 100 copper or 1 scrap_copper, and 5 bleach.
• chem_sulphuric_acid - now only made by heating the acid item. This may seem restrictive but the process that used to be implemented for making it was ridiculous.
• battery - as mentioned before, the battery was an issue (in my mind at least). The resolution is to make the only acid sources that make it work be sulphuric acid (or just ‘acid’ as before). A certain other source of acid works as well, as mentioned above…

Story-line/Other

The only lore changes this mod makes is that it identifies the acid in the rain as sulphuric acid, and the gas coming from the extra-dimensional tears in space-time to be sulfur dioxide. It also states that grapefruits, post-cataclysm, ass contain a sulphuric acid derivative in them that makes them effective for making batteries, just as well as the other two mentioned acids.

More chemistry-related fixes/additions coming soon!

Cheers,
NJ