Cataclysm: Metal Gear Solid

[LazyCat]

I rather like looking over where I’ve been, planning out a multi-day raid, rooting through my notes for whatever it was that I found a while ago but can now actually use… I may not know whether I have something I need to do on that other map until I look at the map for it–and then there’s the question of the best way to approach it.

Remember it. Like in millions other game you can’t see the map until you get there. That was the sacrifice to fix the lag you still got in the main build. Would you rather have constant glitching when moving anywhere near the border? Don’t answer that question actually, if you like distorted screen I wouldn’t be surprised you prefer bugs and glitches as well, as you apparently do.

As for why I didn't jump over to MGS: stuff like the square font, fiddly chargen (having to modify Old Snake and then save, rather than starting from blank slate), options-cutting, that sort of thing. From my perspective, some things LazyCat does are net downgrades & some are net upgrades. The latter haven't yet outweighed the former.

That’s very unconvincing. Two settings you can change in 20 seconds you say overweight the fact it runs many times faster and smoother, without glitches, crashes and without bugs, plus hundreds of improvements over many things that are not even functioning properly in the main build. It’s like comparing broken watch with atomic clock, it doesn’t even compare. So I’d say you are not being honest, for some strange reason.

[Vorpal2]

It’s like comparing broken watch with atomic clock, it doesn’t even compare.

Wow.

[halberdsturgeon]

Based on my brief read through this thread, the main reason I wouldn’t consider switching to this build is because you’ve made several changes to the game that I don’t like and, to be completely blunt, I find it extremely offputting that you talk down to people who offer criticism. If you don’t care whether people play it or not then that’s all well and good, but if you do care, then you ought to listen to feedback instead of just berating people for disagreeing with whatever you do.

[Vorpal2]

Based on my brief read through this thread, the main reason I wouldn’t consider switching to this build is because you’ve made several changes to the game that I don’t like and, to be completely blunt, I find it extremely offputting that you talk down to people who offer criticism. If you don’t care whether people play it or not then that’s all well and good, but if you do care, then you ought to listen to feedback instead of just berating people for disagreeing with whatever you do.

Must agree completely there, as well as not being a fan of MGS, and having no real desire for sound because I generally watch/listen to other stuff while playing Cata…there’s nothing that’s drawn me to it.

[LazyCat]

Based on my brief read through this thread, the main reason I wouldn’t consider switching to this build is because you’ve made several changes to the game that I don’t like and,

You haven’t even tried it, have you? Can you name two of those several reasons?

...to be completely blunt, I find it extremely offputting that you talk down to people who offer criticism. If you don't care whether people play it or not then that's all well and good, but if you do care, then you ought to listen to feedback instead of just berating people for disagreeing with whatever you do.

You are talking about me, for some strange reason. Do you have anything to say about the game, anything specific that is?

[LazyCat]

Must agree completely there, as well as not being a fan of MGS, and having no real desire for sound because I generally watch/listen to other stuff while playing Cata…there’s nothing that’s drawn me to it.

You haven’t tried it either, have you? Draw you, what are you talking about? It’s the same game, only this one is actually working nicely and it doesn’t crash, plush much more. Do yourself a favour and try it out.

[Vorpal2]

[quote=“Vorpal2, post:324, topic:528”]Must agree completely there, as well as not being a fan of MGS, and having no real desire for sound because I generally watch/listen to other stuff while playing Cata…there’s nothing that’s drawn me to it.

You haven’t tried it either, have you? Draw you, what are you talking about? It’s the same game, only this one is actually working nicely and it doesn’t crash, plush much more. Do yourself a favour and try it out.[/quote]

Honestly haven’t seen a feature that has made me want to try it.

[Justice]

Must agree completely there, as well as not being a fan of MGS, and having no real desire for sound because I generally watch/listen to other stuff while playing Cata…there’s nothing that’s drawn me to it.

Honestly haven’t seen a feature that has made me want to try it.

Are you being serious? Have you read the changelog? If reading that doesn’t help you decide to try it out, then maybe you’re beyond help. Some of those features are fantastic. Some have already been added to the main branch, and others will certainly follow. (Working NPC’s, for example.)

Whatever, it’s your loss, not mine.

[LazyCat]

Honestly haven’t seen a feature that has made me want to try it.

How about the game doesn’t crash, how about no glitches and no bugs? Is that alone not enough?

How about playing with NPCs (without game crashing) and order them to wait or follow you?

How about smooth driving with automatic shift-view?

How about jumping action, to jump through windows, over acid or fire?

How about above ground z-levels and secret rooms in church tower and shelter roof?

How about push/kick action to push push monsters away, slam them against a wall, throw them in fire, or throw them through a window by kicking a table onto them?

How about new targeting system that makes the game more tactical and the whole game-play more interesting?

How about sniper scope view or chain-kill combos for bonus moral boost?

[nadia911]

[quote=“nadia911, post:315, topic:528”]Yes, you can fix it?

If you have something to do on the map you left, simply go back to that map. What’s the problem? Why would you want to look at a different map other than the one you are on?[/quote]

If the character has traveled 3, 4 or 5 maps and want to return to the first, not being able to see the maps of the regions already explored, this is a real hassle, but obviously it is your game and you change what you want. It is also useful if you have left markers on the map of places of interest when changing maps that you can no longer see… I do not understand what the reason why you’ve changed this…

[Vorpal2]

How about the game doesn’t crash, how about no glitches and no bugs? Is that alone not enough?

Haven’t had a problem with the last few builds, whenever I start a game I get the latest git so problems with new features do happen, but it’s part of the fun for me.

How about playing with NPCs (without game crashing) and order them to wait or follow you?

Haven’t played with NPCs in a long time, don’t miss them really. A lot more than having them not crash and wait or follow would be needed for me to desire them.

How about smooth driving with automatic shift-view?

Doesn’t bother me.

How about jumping action, to jump through windows, over acid or fire?

Might be nice? Doesn’t scream out at me.

How about above ground z-levels and secret rooms in church tower and shelter roof?

Secret rooms? Not really, not very secret either.
Z-levels I’d like to see done in a way where I can shoot things from them, throw things off them, etc. Combined with the jump and push, maybe.

How about push/kick action to push push monsters away, slam them against a wall, throw them in fire, or throw them through a window by kicking a table onto them?

Sounds interesting.

How about new targeting system that makes the game more tactical and the whole game-play more interesting?

Never had a problem with the whole “shoot at whatever tile i want to” system.

How about sniper scope view or chain-kill combos for bonus moral boost?

Don’t see any reason for the sniper scope for the above reason. Bonus morale for chain-kills would be a bit easy considering how I often play.

I do like many of the features added to the main branch, I must say.

If the character has traveled 3, 4 or 5 maps and want to return to the first, not being able to see the maps of the regions already explored, this is a real hassle, but obviously it is your game and you change what you want. It is also useful if you have left markers on the map of places of interest when changing maps that you can no longer see… I do not understand what the reason why you’ve changed this…

That’s one thing that turns me off for sure.

[GlyphGryph]

I have played your version. I’m probably the only dev that is a fan of it, mostly due to your attitude. It does several things that are pretty cool. But I don’t play it often.

For one thing, I’m a Linux user, and as you’ve indicated, you are not designing with Linux users in mind. So there’s a wall right there.

Secondly, I don’t like some of the implemented changes - primarily the aiming mechanics, the profile, the square font, a few other small things.

Third, it lags behind the main dev version in changes, which is what I usually use.

Fourth, it’s harder to tweak the code, which is much of the enjoyment for me, since you don’t have a public repo.

Finally, and this is probably the most important bit… a lot of the changes are nice, but ultimately don’t change the game that much. I really want things like jumping to play an enjoyable role in the experience, and they… don’t. So while I could use your version, the actual reasons to do so are not terribly strong.

It has been a few weeks though (since I’ve played at ALL), so I’m going to give it another spin this weekend and see what’s change. I hope to be pleasantly impressed and am really looking forward to trying out the push/kick system.

[LazyCat]

If the character has traveled 3, 4 or 5 maps and want to return to the first, not being able to see the maps of the regions already explored, this is a real hassle, but obviously it is your game and you change what you want. It is also useful if you have left markers on the map of places of interest when changing maps that you can no longer see… I do not understand what the reason why you’ve changed this…

It’s not that I refuse, I tried it and I concluded it would require too much effort. I changed to be like this in order to fix constant glitching near map borders that came along with 0.4 release of the main build and it’s still there today. That was terrible bug, and this is how many other games work, so I’m not worried about it, I am just happy I got rid of that lag.

How come you visited 5 maps and you haven’t seen winter yet? I think one map is big enough to make you busy for a whole game year. Why do you even go to another map? Did you clear all the cities on your starting map? Did you visit all the temples? Destroyed all the triffids and fungoids? Cleared all the labs? I really see no need for more than one map, so I don’t think this is any kind of problem. I move to another map only if I need a hospital to repair busted limbs and by some chance there is no hospital on my starting map.

[Rivet]

The primary reason I haven’t played it because I like Cataclysm but I dislike the Metal Gear games.

A few of the added features sound pretty cool however I have zero desire to play a blatant ripoff of a game that I don’t even like to begin with, which has nothing at all to do with the game I actually want to play.

[LazyCat]

…

You have to try it out. You will see just music and sound effects makes the game many times more enjoyable to play. I dare you to try it and say otherwise.

[LazyCat]

[quote=“Rivet, post:334, topic:528”]The primary reason I haven’t played it because I like Cataclysm but I dislike the Metal Gear games.

A few of the added features sound pretty cool however I have zero desire to play a blatant ripoff of a game that I don’t even like to begin with, which has nothing at all to do with the game I actually want to play.[/quote]

It’s the same game as Cataclysm, only better. The only Metal Gear related stuff is background music and some sound effects, which is quite very well fitting and you can replace it with whatever else you like.

[Rivet]

Roguelikes don’t need noise.
Sometimes silence is golden and part of the fun of roguelikes is using your imagination to fill in those blanks anyway.

[Fniff]

It can have a nice effect, as shown by DF, but that’s always toggleable.

[Vorpal2]

[quote=“Vorpal2, post:331, topic:528”]…

You have to try it out. You will see just music and sound effects makes the game many times more enjoyable to play. I dare you to try it and say otherwise.[/quote]

I like to watch things at the same time. I realize this is as big an improvement to Cataclysm as sound was to silent movies, but it doesn’t suit my gaming style.

The square fonts and disappearing map too? No thanks.

[Justice]

[quote=“Rivet, post:337, topic:528”]Roguelikes don’t need noise.
Sometimes silence is golden and part of the fun of roguelikes is using your imagination to fill in those blanks anyway.[/quote]

Great point, but as LC mentioned that can be changed.

I have played your version. I’m probably the only dev that is a fan of it, mostly due to your attitude. It does several things that are pretty cool. But I don’t play it often.

Well, to be honest, I’ve come to realize that most of the apparent attitude comes from having ESL. It’s more obvious when you read some of his longer posts. I simply picture a used car salesman with ESL, and the attitude vanishes from the text.

For one thing, I'm a Linux user, and as you've indicated, you are not designing with Linux users in mind. So there's a wall right there.

Secondly, I don’t like some of the implemented changes - primarily the aiming mechanics, the profile, the square font, a few other small things.

Third, it lags behind the main dev version in changes, which is what I usually use.

Fourth, it’s harder to tweak the code, which is much of the enjoyment for me, since you don’t have a public repo.

I agree with you about several of these, especially the font, but on your 4th point I completely disagree. Why not git init and do whatever you like, even push it to a public repo? Although, the pretty interface can be easily achieved on http://localhost now.

Finally, and this is probably the most important bit... a lot of the changes are nice, but ultimately don't change the game that much. I really want things like jumping to play an enjoyable role in the experience, and they... don't. So while I [i]could[/i] use your version, the actual reasons to do so are not terribly strong.

Don’t you mean “play your version”? 0_o

LOL, only kidding, you did say tweaking the source is much of the enjoyment for you.

It has been a few weeks though (since I've played at ALL), so I'm going to give it another spin this weekend and see what's change. I hope to be pleasantly impressed and am really looking forward to trying out the push/kick system.

Yep, I can’t wait to see that in the main branch.