Ants

pisskop · 2016-01-27T00:59:20.000Z

How do make stronger?

Ant Hives are easily infiltrated, ants are too passive, and they lack anything too fun, like acid stinging/shooting and pheromone markers.

Soldiers are adequate to deter early game exploration, but hardly beyond that. Theres little loot inside besides all of the meat ever, but the eggs are great and there are sparse CBMs and toyal jelly.

So any ideas on how to make our Red Ants better? These are the critters who, in normal sized variations, take down nosey dogs, for goodness’ sake.

Random_dragon · 2016-01-27T02:14:48.000Z

I’ve mentioned drone ants as an idea before, if I recall. Other than that…hmm.

Malkeus · 2016-01-27T03:27:59.000Z

We have soldiers, lets give them tanks, huge versions that grab you and hold you in place while they pummel you! And sappers! You walk over them and they dig the floor out from underneath you, dropping you into the middle of the nest with no easy way out. The queen could have elite soldiers, faster and stronger than regular soldiers, teamed with tanks, suddenly the interior of a nest is a death trap! Acid sprayers exist in nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYCbt0ou98E , lets make them exist in cataclysm.

Random_dragon · 2016-01-27T03:39:21.000Z

Acid sprayers, seems viable.

We might want to make all ants acidproof to avoid that addition making anthills easier though.

Malkeus · 2016-01-27T03:57:59.000Z

Thoughts?

{
    "type" : "MONSTER",
    "id" : "mon_ant_sprayer",
    "name": "acid sprayer ant",
    "species":"INSECT",
    "default_faction":"ant",
    "symbol":"a",
    "color":"red",
    "size":"MEDIUM",
    "material":"iflesh",
    "diff":16,
    "aggression":30,
    "morale":100,
    "speed":90,
    "melee_skill":7,
    "melee_dice":2,
    "melee_dice_sides":5,
    "melee_cut":6,
    "dodge":0,
    "armor_bash":5,
    "armor_cut":5,
    "vision_day":10,
    "vision_night":10,
    "hp":80,
    "death_function":["ACID", "NORMAL"],
    "special_attacks":["ACID_ACCURATE", 6],
    "special_when_hit":["ACIDSPLASH", 50],
    "description":"A bulbous red-green ant, it's abdomen is dark green and grotesquely swollen.  Green liquid drips from it's jaws, acrid smoke rises from every drop.  ",
    "flags":["SEES", "HEARS", "SMELLS", "CHITIN", "CLIMBS", "ACIDPROOF", "POISON"],
    "anger_triggers":["FRIEND_ATTACKED", "FRIEND_DIED", "HURT", "PLAYER_CLOSE"]
    }

pisskop · 2016-01-27T04:00:14.000Z

fire ants are stingers, im not sure if ‘red ants’ are supposed to be fire ants or not.

Hive insects in general can literally smell the violent death of their own, and typically get more aggressive as a result. heres to getting splashes in ant phermones.

whats species of ant are these?

Malkeus · 2016-01-27T04:02:55.000Z

“anger_triggers”:[“FRIEND_ATTACKED”, “FRIEND_DIED”, “HURT”, “PLAYER_CLOSE”]

This line ensures they are more aggressive when their friends are hurt or killed, and injuring them only makes them more aggressive. And when an outsider is in the nest as well. I think that’s a good simulation of pheromones, right?

pisskop · 2016-01-27T04:05:19.000Z

except any workers ignore my spear through larvae and soldiers.

They have the numbers but dont exercise them recently. the only chamber Im wary of is the queens chamber

Malkeus · 2016-01-27T04:28:57.000Z

That’s because they have 0 aggression and lowish morale. Bumping the aggression up to 10 and morale up to 80 might put a little more spine in them.

{
    "type" : "MONSTER",
    "id" : "mon_ant",
    "name": "giant ant",
    "species":"INSECT",
    "default_faction":"ant",
    "symbol":"a",
    "color":"brown",
    "size":"MEDIUM",
    "material":"iflesh",
    "diff":7,
    "aggression":0,
    "morale":60,
    "speed":100,
    "melee_skill":5,
    "melee_dice":1,
    "melee_dice_sides":6,
    "melee_cut":6,
    "dodge":1,
    "armor_bash":5,
    "armor_cut":10,
    "vision_day":5,
    "vision_night":5,
    "hp":40,
    "death_function":"NORMAL",
    "description":"An enormous red ant covered in chitinous plates.  It possesses a pair of wriggling antennae and vicious-looking mandibles.",
    "flags":["SEES", "HEARS", "SMELLS", "CHITIN", "CLIMBS"],
    "anger_triggers":["FRIEND_ATTACKED", "FRIEND_DIED", "HURT", "PLAYER_WEAK"]
    }

kevin.granade · 2016-01-27T04:44:31.000Z

pisskop:

whats species of ant are these?

Giant

pisskop:

except any workers ignore my spear through larvae and soldiers.

Part of the problem is the lack of agression, part of it is poor senses, even if they’re angry they won’t attack if they can’t detect you, and they’re very nearly blind.

Malkeus:

might put a little more spine in them.

ISWYDT…

Something that might be better for pheremones is a fast-spreading (invisible) cloud that attracts and angers ants. Along with a fix to ensure that they at least attack when adjacent and angry, that would make them swarm to the freshest site of combat and start smashing things up.
Also their armor could probably use quite a buff, these things devote a LOT of their body mass to chitin armor.

TheKobold · 2016-01-27T16:39:41.000Z

Trap-jaw ants of the genus Odontomachus are equipped with mandibles called trap-jaws, which snap shut faster than any other predatory appendages within the animal kingdom. One study of Odontomachus bauri recorded peak speeds of between 126 and 230 km/h (78 and 143 mph), with the jaws closing within 130 microseconds on average. The ants were also observed to use their jaws as a catapult to eject intruders or fling themselves backward to escape a threat. - Ant brutes/hulks.

Fire ants, Solenopsis spp., are unique in having a venom sac containing piperidine alkaloids. Their stings are painful and can be dangerous to hypersensitive people. - Super painful bites, many ants have highly painful bites with mild poisonous affects.

A Malaysian species of ant in the Camponotus cylindricus group has enlarged mandibular glands that extend into their gaster. When disturbed, workers rupture the membrane of the gaster, causing a burst of secretions containing acetophenones and other chemicals that immobilise small insect attackers. The worker subsequently dies. - Suicide bomber ants.

How about ants that specifically mark intruders for attack, like boomers, but with pheromones that draw every ant in the reality bubble to you?

pisskop · 2016-01-27T16:42:38.000Z

I like the idea of scent bubbles, and its well deocumented that ants can survive underwater for extended periods, spray acid, ‘milk’ other insects, and are vicious in other ways.

Random_dragon · 2016-01-27T16:47:56.000Z

I also like the idea of beefing up their armor, as Kevin mentioned. Would be a bit odd to have them display properties of wildly different species of ants, but it can be explained as them being mutated. They’ve already developed enough to go from, well, ant-size to being their own notable monster faction with their own queen (literally, in game terms having a monster with the “QUEEN” flag).

i2amroy · 2016-01-27T21:10:45.000Z

pisskop:

I like the idea of scent bubbles, and its well deocumented that ants can survive underwater for extended periods, spray acid, ‘milk’ other insects, and are vicious in other ways.

It might be important to realize that “an ant can do cool thing” does not necessarily translate to “all ants can do cool thing”.

Honestly I think just making them a bit more aggressive will go a long way towards solving this problem.

Malkeus · 2016-01-27T21:40:41.000Z

i2amroy:

[quote=“pisskop, post:12, topic:11304”]I like the idea of scent bubbles, and its well deocumented that ants can survive underwater for extended periods, spray acid, ‘milk’ other insects, and are vicious in other ways.

It might be important to realize that “an ant can do cool thing” does not necessarily translate to “all ants can do cool thing”.

Honestly I think just making them a bit more aggressive will go a long way towards solving this problem.[/quote]

But it can translate to “our ants can do cool thing”! We can rebuild them, we have the technology. We can make them better than they were before. Better, stronger, faster…TeNanananana

pisskop · 2016-01-27T21:45:30.000Z

Im actually against the acid spraying. Id be happy if they swarmed you and if they used their jaws to hold you in place while they stung you to death.

Imagine that. A man in full power armor gabbed by several ants and pinned while they futilly tried to pierce the steel. Youre not throwing a pile of ants off you.

Wally-kun · 2016-01-28T02:53:00.000Z

I believe this topic should be reminded of the dreaded jack jumpers.

They would be utterly hostile, have much higher sight than regular ants, can leap, inflict toxic stings, and are more or less the grizzly bear-equivalent in the ant world. Except these grizzly bears are poisonous and fucking hate everything with a burning passion.

Having them be the size of a grizzly bear would also not unreasonable in-game.

Chezzo · 2016-01-28T15:37:17.000Z

Scientists found SUPER SOLDIER ants in Long Island, NY (of all places). Look at these suckers:

So I am absolutely behind a tank/super soldier ant.

Belteshazzar · 2016-01-28T21:31:50.000Z

This will probably sound a little dumb and reductionist… but what if we merged ants and bees? After all, they are essentially in the same superfamily of insects (Vespoida.) Perhaps these giants are simply a weird atavistic mutation, or even an incidental resemblance by extra-dimensional hive creature having castes with aspects of both groups?

Fliers: Flit about in swarms to scout out resources take down small threats with their stingers and collect lesser amounts of food.

Builders: About the size of a cat, can excrete a sticky, waxy substance to ensnare prey or wall off intruders.

Tunnelers: Easily the size of a wolf they have a weak grab and bite with a one tile acid spray, alone not very threatening but usually encountered in large teams.

Cutters: BEEEG HULK BUG! Massive jaws fit for slicing n dicing. Have a strong grab attack and can deal nasty bleeding. Usually seen carrying off chunks of larger prey from a successful hunt or within the nest’s sensitive areas moving and guarding the brood/queen.

Mono-caste ‘Wasps’ may be interesting to keep as their own separate species though. Being the more egalitarian pack-based alternative to the super-hives (each individual wasp could prey on several of the lesser hive creatures, but lack their specializations, numbers, and unity of purpose.)

Wally-kun · 2016-01-29T00:28:40.000Z

An interesting suggestion. I didn’t think I’d be considering it, personally.

Currently wasps set up aggressively-placed nests in towns via wasp-infested houses, which don’t really do all that much aside from being unique and dangerous early on. They’re also rare in themselves and have no real perk other than giving zombies something to swing at other than you. The enemy of the enemy can be a friend.

Bee hives, however, are kind of…I’m not sure. They’re in a strange place. On the one hand, it’s a complex of bee hives the size of a large building, and the only source of honey in the game, even though it’s still technically non-renewable. I personally wouldn’t be terribly sad to see them go, as I’ve only ever invaded once when I was ridiculously over-prepared and couldn’t be hurt. Otherwise, no one has any reason to ever approach them.

Bee hives of a regular size wouldn’t be terribly out of place out in the woods. Those tiny, non-interactive creatures could be of use for something other than decoration: you can harvest a bee hive and get honey and honeycomb, but you get attacked by swarms of BEEEEEEES! Or maybe one giant bee. A blob-infested queen, if you like.

And when I think about it, ants and wasps DO have some pretty similar anatomies, depending on which species you look at. Wings, stingers, dangerous mandibles and bites, carnivorous in nature, maybe merge in that ability from those bugs that lay eggs under your skin…

Honestly it’d be pretty interesting to see. But I’m also thinking that simply giving the ants a facelift is not out of the question, either. It depends on what the devs think would be more appropriate.