Acid is OPed

[pisskop]

Or, more specifically, in the early and mid games, acid is one of the most lethal parts of the game to a survivor.

You know what my 3rd or 4th most common death in the first day is? Acidic zombies barfing on me when Im climbing through windowframes in the dark. And this is a burning building/surrounded start character who just as often as not gets pinned by 4 zombies in the burning building and escape with damage from falling rubble barefooted into a street full of statically spawned zombies and then hordes coming because of the light/noise. Into the snowstorming spring midnight air.

When an otherwise tame horde comes by, spitter zombies mean that Im guarentted to take damage (and perhaps equally bad) pain. And not a little. Id rather face a hulk in most cases than a spitter and a horde.

Acid doesnt even destroy items any more, and thus acid bombs are limited by the aquisition of acid (which is a renewable resource since we can refine acid from water). Acid bombs are def my go-to grenade.

Im not a fan in general, and its becoming even more evident as I park near a hospital and spitters are a regular part of the show. Perhaps the damage needs to be extended over a period of time, or be mitigated in the rain, or cause pain before actual damage.

I think some steps towards making acid more of a force have been taken. Acid should be capable of covering arms or the head or w.e. as the spitters and such literally shoot at you. But I in no way see a spitter making enough spittle to coat a 10x10 area with enough goop to make anything thougher than a pair of boots with the pants-cuffs tucked into them suffer as survivors do.

Ive been a supporter of acid either melting everything via Aliens blood or it causing a more support effect like ‘sensitivity’ or ‘pain’ or ‘diseases/sickness’. But the flat damage is just grossly OP. At least, for the amount of time you spend in it. Its perhaps even worse now that items dont melt, because 10 seconds in the acid and you sure-as-shootin’ do.

[Coolthulhu]

I was thinking about removing the leg damage from fields and limiting it to just feet. That would halve the damage per turn and make it more obvious about what you need to protect.

[FrankyPlaysGames]

I was thinking about removing the leg damage from fields and limiting it to just feet. That would halve the damage per turn and make it more obvious about what you need to protect.

Perhaps have varying levels of acid, similar to water?

[TheFlame52]

I’m with you, mate. I carry first aid kits because of acid.

[Belteshazzar]

I think acid should definitely damage items again (it adds danger diversity and real risk to the player rather than the character.)

However… maybe Acid attacks should apply some sort of enduring damage-per-tick instead of all at once as you are suggesting. The primary pain spike could stay as the initial effect of the attack (strong acids or bases’ are honestly most likely to kill you from nervous system failure long before you are dissolved) but, the physical damage would take a while to set in.

Perhaps use a system similar to wetness, which could also allow for some items like towels or perhaps even soda to clean off or nullify the corrosive?

[pisskop]

I am suggesting an enduring system, as one alternative.

I feel like if th acid was strong enough to hurt you than cotton/absorbant clothes would at best mitigate the acid’s effects, and in the case of clothing worn on you it would amplify it. A suddenly acid soaked shirt cannot be good for you . . .

[BeerBeer]

Acid is pretty nasty in the early game. I often fight spitters or acidic zombies only with ranged weapons but more often I avoid them altogether. Melee is just asking for damage, even with proper protection. Also you have to approach and attack spitters fast if they spit and miss. They don’t spit every turn. They have a cooldown. Take advantage of it.

Acid puddles can be used against zombies, too, so they work kind of both ways. But then again, that might only strengthen your argument because I’ve dispatched a lot zombies with the acid from spitters by herding the zombies into the puddles. So I’ve also thought the damage is kind of OP! Heh.

Do you always play ‘burning building’ starts? You might also tweak down the monster count and evolution… if that even helps? I’m just thinking you might suffer more from a combination of settings and circumstances, rather than acid alone. But I do agree acid is pretty strong, even too strong.

Having a lightsource might help with climbing through windows in the dark - use light briefly to check if there are zombies nearby. Before that, stop and listen for a couple of turns before climbing through. Chances are you might hear some movement.

Rubber boots might be an acceptable additional starting item in your case.

Is it possible to edit the acid damage without having to (re)compile the source?

[pisskop]

I get all those tips. In not complaining about what I do to make early game harder. I choose to start barefoot at midnight in spring, surrounded, in a burining building, with monster spawns jacked up and items tuned down and static wanderers on.

This is about a character almost 28 days old, in what I consider adequate combat dress who takes pain and damage just by being in the area as a spitter. And how a character dies from standing in acid with boots on. its hard to justify boiling alive in your iwn boots, which get nothing more than a nice sheen from acid.

is acid a photon now? it phases through matter that cooks you like a wrapped piece of meat?

I dont mind ‘hard’ or ‘nasty’. I am unhappy with how acid zombies are guarentted damaged that cut even the best raids short if it shows up.

===

Acid is currently modeled as a projectile that ‘splashes’ the ground it hits, and in the case of spitters it randomly coats the area. There’s no ‘getting it on your arm’ or ‘Oh crap I forgot to wear waterproof items and not its on my skin’. It should, imo, work like rain does for how much it affects you.

It hits a body part or three, rain permeability check, acid armor, enviormental prot = Damage, possibly over time. Or just pain if the acid fails a certain threshold or something.

Barefoot or otherwise improperly protected feet should also cause damage, and you could argue that splashing acid onto your legs as you walk/run in a combat situation is also bad.

[Coolthulhu]

And how a character dies from standing in acid with boots on. its hard to justify boiling alive in your iwn boots, which get nothing more than a nice sheen from acid.

You don’t take damage to everything else until you lose the use of both legs.

It’s not hard to justify acid damage going through boots: it would be meaningless otherwise.
If regular boots protected from acid, acid would be meaningless and spitters and acid bombs would also be meaningless and should be removed (most zombies wear boots, so acid bombs wouldn’t do much).

I dont mind ‘hard’ or ‘nasty’. I am unhappy with how acid zombies are guarentted damaged that cut even the best raids short if it shows up.

You could try gearing up specifically against them then.
Hulks, predators and shockers also are guaranteed damage.

Also, it’s not a problem that some zombie types use hard to avoid damage. In fact, I specifically tweaked acid to be hard to ignore in typical armor, even survivor grade one.

No extra damage for barefoot walking in acid. For balance and design reasons, regular boots count as “improperly protected” and will not give even a single point of acid damage reduction over going barefoot.

What could change however would be the part where they affect entire legs and not just feet. Currently you need fishing waders to be immune to acid and those are rare. Changing the requirement to just rubber boots could be a thing.

[deoxy]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:9, topic:11385”]You could try gearing up specifically against them then.
Hulks, predators and shockers also are guaranteed damage.[/quote]

Hulks and brutes can be dodged and having high dex lowers/negates the damage even if you don’t dodge. Also, they are melee only.

Predators don’t always penetrate the tougher armors. They never penetrate the REALLY tough armors. It’s also melee only.

People DO gear specifically to avoid damage from shockers, either with equipment (which is decently common) or with the Dielectric capacitance CBM, and many people avoid them until they have one of those things (and they glow, so avoidance is easier than with most other zombies). Also, the right weapon avoids getting shocked back.

Acid-using zombies… just plain hurt you, unless you have some VERY specific and decently rare gear (which is also incredibly encumbering). It’s the most automatic damage in the game, it’s area effect, area-effect again when they are hit (sometimes), and does more damage over time after that (like the shockers, only lasting MUCH longer).

Yeah, acid is easily the most annoying and hardest to avoid damage. That said, if you always get out of the acid immediately and use it against them (making the non-acid step/stand in it) and you have SOME acid protection, the damage can be fairly limited and in some circumstances even make up for it in damage back to the enemy.

In middle- to late-game characters, yes, my legs do easily take the most damage, and yes, it is a little ridiculous and annoying, but a) SOMETHING needs to stay dangerous (and we’re short on end-game, “boss” creatures), and B) SOMETHING will always be the most damaging/annoying and thus the object of complaint.

I do think that the damage should be avoidable almost as easily as getting wet, and I do think that it should damage objects (but not nearly as crazy/instant as it used to be), but otherwise, it’s not too bad.

Rain should probably dilute/remove acid much faster. That might help, too, as there would be ways to deal with acid zombies if you’re willing to wait for the right time.

[pisskop]

Like I said, I think that the acid should hit all the parts, like a gunshot, and then we should go from there. I dont mind it landing on the ground and then being tested from there. A simple disease with a strength dependent upon how well protected the body part in question is should go a long way to helping reduce the need for this OP damage.

afa end game being too easy.

Yup. it is. But the solution isnt to spam acid spitters that do magic damage. Or at least automatic damage. Once the gun using psychopaths known as NPCs get organized better theyll be plenty enough handfuls to justify mortaring the world. Guns are dangerous, after all.

=====

I know I say ‘simple disease’ like its an easy fix. But acid is getting the short end by being some hulky biohazard that automatically hurts. The attrition theme of Zombies isnt being lived up to without longer lasting effects, and the potential for unseen harm that bio-fluids can do isnt either.

Corrosives can spit quite frequently, and modifying how acid hurts will make it even a good thing.

[Coolthulhu]

Yeah, acid is easily the most annoying and hardest to avoid damage.

Electric easily beats it in both categories. It deals less damage, but is much harder to avoid until you get a semi-rare CBM or decide to wear full hazmat.

To be fair, acid is THE easiest to avoid damage, even easier than physical. The cart trick isn’t removed yet.

But the solution isnt to spam acid spitters that do magic damage. Or at least automatic damage.

Give a better solution.
It has to fulfill all those criteria to compete:

[ul][li]Wearing endgame gear doesn’t make it stop working, unless it’s gear specialized to negate it[/li]
[li]Not-wearing endgame gear doesn’t make it an insta-kill or anything close to it[/li]
[li]It can’t be cheesed easily by leading a bunch of zeds into it or by chucking stuff at it in the night[/li][/ul]

[Noctifer]

How about the following, pools of acid stay the way they are. If a spitter shot at you and misses, a pool is created. If it hits, the game checks you clothes to see if they have acid resistance and if then calculates damage to everybody part accordingly, this method of acid would be a status effect you could check with @ and would last very little time, (Covered in acid : Your whole body is covered in acid. Effects :damage,pain).

[pisskop]

Actually, Id be concerned if that would affect other monsters that were spit at.

[deoxy]

[quote=“deoxy, post:10, topic:11385”]Yeah, acid is easily the most annoying and hardest to avoid damage.

Electric easily beats it in both categories. It deals less damage, but is much harder to avoid until you get a semi-rare CBM or decide to wear full hazmat.

To be fair, acid is THE easiest to avoid damage, even easier than physical. The cart trick isn’t removed yet.[/quote]

Are we playing the same GAME? Seriously? It’s not just the hazmat suit that defeats it, and the Dieletric CBM isn’t the MOST common, but I usually have a pile of them sitting around by the end of the first year. I have yet to find even ONE of the CBM that prevents acid damage - what’s it even called? :-p

Acid damage can be somewhat mitigated more easily than electricity (it either hurts you or it doesn’t), but A) as I pointed out, shockers of all types glow, so they are easily avoidable until you can deal with them, and B) the stuff that actually prevents acid damage is either VERY rare or CRAZY encumbering (or both). By 3 months in, I don’t care about electricity, ever. Acid stays esetntially unavoidable all the way to the end.

[Coolthulhu]

the stuff that actually prevents acid damage is either VERY rare or CRAZY encumbering (or both). By 3 months in, I don’t care about electricity, ever. Acid stays esetntially unavoidable all the way to the end.

git gud

A shopping cart is neither rare nor very encumbering.
A car standing in the city you’re looting is quite encumbering (you can’t carry it around), but it isn’t rare.
Survivor firegear and wetsuits are neither very rare nor very encumbering.
Cleansuit+turnout/rubber boots is only moderately encumbering and common
Turnout trousers+flame-resistant suit+turnout/rubber boots, also only moderately encumbering

You can always pad boots with flame-resistant socks and legs with flame-resistant suits.

[TheFlame52]

Yes, I like to stand on cars to block the acid when I can. The hulks smash out all the quarterpanels, so they don’t block my fighting.

[BeerBeer]

We can’t do anything to modify clothing to add acid resistance. Can we? Should we be able to?

[pisskop]

We can’t do anything to modify clothing to add acid resistance. Can we? Should we be able to?

Probs could. But thats not fixing the problem, its masking the symptoms

[ZoneWizard]

I thought we already have acid resist? Chemical resist?