Ability to disassemble guns

Game Talk The Drawing Board
41

Yeah, I suppose it does add complexity, though I would argue that it’s nothing beyond what the existing crafting system already does. With, say, cooking. You just can’t disassemble the food into components. :stuck_out_tongue:

You’ve actually missed the third use case, customizing guns. Admittedly it’s probably tied into the first one, but it’s still something that already happens. Where now you have a somewhat nonsensical system of “retools” that have to be created separately for every given caliber/weapon type, and have to have the calibers and weapons they can convert also manually set for them, the custom-part system would neatly fold it into a quasi-realistic package that makes far more sense than making a bolt-action rifle automatic, or extending the ammo capacity of a revolver, with some kind of “kit”.

Plus it gives a good excuse to add template items that can be used in a lot of other places.

42

Just wanted to pop in here and say that I would like this idea, however im pretty sure that you could generalize it a bit just so its not a crazy amount of items.

43

I think I covered customization in my use case one, a system where every gun is defined by being a collection of individual parts that each contribute to its performance. if that’s not what you mean, I’m all ears.

by the way, I don’t think clutter would be an issue, by the simple expident of not having the individual parts spawn on their own, at least not with any frequency. that way people who don’t disassemble guns would never see them, and people who do disassemble guns would be swimming in them.

what I DO have a problem with is making individual gun definitions even more complicated. they’re already the most complex items in the game, and you’re proposing making them much more so for little functional gain.

44

Yeah, disassembling it into parts would largely be a custom thing. Fair enough.

45

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:43, topic:5477”]I think I covered customization in my use case one, a system where every gun is defined by being a collection of individual parts that each contribute to its performance. if that’s not what you mean, I’m all ears.

by the way, I don’t think clutter would be an issue, by the simple expident of not having the individual parts spawn on their own, at least not with any frequency. that way people who don’t disassemble guns would never see them, and people who do disassemble guns would be swimming in them.

what I DO have a problem with is making individual gun definitions even more complicated. they’re already the most complex items in the game, and you’re proposing making them much more so for little functional gain.[/quote]Er, no, actually there is no further complication in their definitions. They keep exactly as they are now, the only thing that changes is that they get a disassembly recipe embedded - which all items will, if we go that route. Their re-assembly recipes can be autogenerated from the disassembly ones as well. The gun definitions themselves will remain normal, what will be added is the system wherein crafting a weapon out of parts will produce different weapons based on parts used and the skill of the user.

That’s the hardest thing to get right here, given the template parts - the system needs to know the baseline stats for items that it uses, which are derived from items that the parts are used in - i.e. an “AK47 receiver” should have stats that, combined with the other parts that go into an AK47, would produce something like an AK47 performance-wise. This could probably involve pulling information from the weapon itself, as well as the item definitions for the other components the weapon disassembles into - essentially using the “custom weapon” system in reverse. That would only need to be done once for every weapon being disassembled though, as only the receiver is truly dependent on the weapon. The other parts have their own stats, only with flags attached for material or caliber.

I.e. what I mean is: to get the stats for the receiver, the system would take the stats for the weapon, and then gradually “strip” it of non-receiver parts, subtracting stats for every part removed according to the custom weapon crafting system, until only the receiver is left.

Though I guess that means I have to amend my earlier statement - the guns will probably need something to specify what item is “left” after the gun’s disassembled ,since the receiver won’t always be called the same as the gun (i.e. the M16 having an AR15 receiver). This could probably be handled by using some kind of flag variable in the embedded disassembly recipe, or adding a line in the weapon’s .json along the lines of

“primary_part” : “template_receiver_rifle”,
, so that the system knows to embed the weapon’s stats in the templated receiver part upon disassembly.

46

I still want guns to be similar to cars in which they are assembled with their own rules, so that we can custom build guns.
Honestly, the customization in this game is amazing, being able to make our own unique weapons, would be awesome, even if somewhat OP. It’s not like cars are OP or anything, : P
But making our own guns would be awesome.

47

That means Cata can be powergamed to produce the perfect weapon. And that’s hardly fun.
I would however support this mechanic as a way to RNG lab rewards: Crazy, frankenstein’d weapons firing exotic ammunitnion.

48

A skill-based, component-driven system will hardly be any more powergamey than real life. IRL, it’s perfectly possible to build a belt-fed .50 caliber handgun - nobody would have the strength to autofire it, and it would never see use except once on the firing range before it leaves the shooter’s hand and lodges itself in the nearest mountain, but if there were such a steel-gripped person, it would be the perfect handgun for them.

In this case, the perfect weapon is simply the biggest, most powerful caliber you can find, jammed into as small a package as you can make it, and as well-made as you can manage. It’ll take monstrous amounts of skill to make, and you’ll need some pretty rare parts, but you’ll be able to make it. That’s it. I don’t think it counts as powergaming if you need both luck and a great deal of time invested into it.

49

But couple that with the ability to dismantle firearms, and you’re putting the playing in a scenario where all found guns are immediately stripped for parts and the player only needs to carry a few custom guns that are constantly upgraded. (or even just one gun where the barrel is refitted from time to time to accommodate a different size ammunition that’s in ample supply.)

I said it before and i’ll say it again: Cata relies too much on firearms. It breaks from the survivalcraft genre and it’s also not fun to be able to raid a gun store on day 1 and become an unstoppable juggernaut spewing fire and lead.
The focus of firearms really needs to be pushed back to at least the mid-game.

50

I smell Minecraft Tinker’s Construct mod style crafting.

51

What makes you think Cataclysm has any notion of conforming strictly to this genre you’re talking about? According to the design docs, the game intentionally favours scavenging over making your own stuff.