6+ months of agonizing "realism" nerfs have ruined this game

[OldWillie]

Long time lurker. I registered just to point out that the thread complaining about tedious makework changes to the game devolved into discussing the merits of individual nutrient absorption and detailed realistic wound cleaning in a video game.

[Coolthulhu]

Doesn’t hurt to discuss those, as long as everyone understands it’s just brainstorming.

[OldWillie]

Fair enough. I do agree with the original post though; in the short time I’ve been following this game, each update is far more likely to make me wince than make me excited. There is a lot of bizarre Not Fun stuff being thrown in seemingly for the sake of adding tedium.

What is the general consensus on which release is the last good one?

[Litppunk]

eh, it has mostly gradual swings good and bad. Game speed has only gone down, could use some increased efficiency.

[Shopkeeper]

Are you guys running cataclysm on actual potatoes? I know the great thing about CDDA is that you can do just that, but I’ve got a 3 going on 4 year old notebook that even when I ran into the mother of all hordes didn’t buckle or slow down considerably. The only real performance issues I’ve come across have usually been due to whatever bug of the week development has managed to miss swatting.

[Litppunk]

its not so much buckling performance, as menus, sometimes saves and turns in general just being… not as fast as they used to be. Mostly its not very noticeable but if your used to Cata running at higher speeds it begins to get irritating. The game “runs” at normal speeds hordes and the like provide no issues to game speed. But start to horde the loot and you might start to notice that trying to do several moves, or craft something starts to get noticeably lagged in reaction to key presses.

Then again, Im running it in a wrapper. on a mac air. Not a lot of computing power to begin with. So I hardly have any room to complain.

[wad67]

[quote=“Litppunk, post:426, topic:12504”]its not so much buckling performance, as menus, sometimes saves and turns in general just being… not as fast as they used to be. Mostly its not very noticeable but if your used to Cata running at higher speeds it begins to get irritating. The game “runs” at normal speeds hordes and the like provide no issues to game speed. But start to horde the loot and you might start to notice that trying to do several moves, or craft something starts to get noticeably lagged in reaction to key presses.

Then again, Im running it in a wrapper. on a mac air. Not a lot of computing power to begin with. So I hardly have any room to complain.[/quote]

I’m running a fairly decent computer, but I still get performance problems too.

[spoiler]

	Operating System
		Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1 && DEBIAN
	CPU
		AMD FX-6300	31 °C
		Vishera 32nm Technology
	RAM
		12.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 803MHz (11-11-11-28)
	Motherboard
		Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd. GA-78LMT-USB3 6.0 (Socket M2)	31 °C
	Graphics
		Compaq WF1907 (1440x900@60Hz)
		2250W (1920x1080@60Hz)
		2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 (MSI)	33 °C
	Storage
		931GB Seagate ST1000DM003-1SB102 ATA Device (SATA)	30 °C
		238GB CORSAIR FORCE LX SSD ATA Device (SSD)	38 °C
	Optical Drives
		No optical disk drives detected
	Audio
		Realtek High Definition Audio[/spoiler]

[SpadeDraco]

What is the general consensus on which release is the last good one?

The current experimental is fine. Most of the craptastic stuff (except Perfect Reliability which appears to be glitched currently) can be disabled with official mods. This is actually the rule in most cases. The big stink was over the fact that Filthy Clothes were forced on us without an option to disable them. This was compounded further by the fact that the project lead refused to let anyone do anything about the feature. This made the chunk of the community that isn’t too fond of realism worry that future changes would be forced upon us in this manner, so we collectively threw a shit fit.

[viggolo]

Myself and the couple people I know who play this have a late 2015 experimental backed up in a couple places and at this point we effectively consider it the final version. I don’t even really have anything to say except this: Grats on running a great game into the ground.

Would you be so kind and PM me the version you are using. I have up to a few days ago been playing exclusively the 0.C stable and just now tried out the latest experimental and I can see where you’re coming from.

[Coolthulhu]

We fixed a lot of the problems mentioned here. Performance improved quite noticeably (especially crafting screen building), filthy is optional (though currently displays even when off - just displays), multiple engines are working again.

Can anyone sum up the still-relevant problems?

I see the painful generic tanks, not working perfect reliability (I’m considering removing engine fault system altogether - it was never really good), weak electric vehicles.
Anything else?

[Random_dragon]

Getting a fancy recovery vehicle just so I can remove broken treads from a tank? :V

[viggolo]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:430, topic:12504”]We fixed a lot of the problems mentioned here. Performance improved quite noticeably (especially crafting screen building), filthy is optional (though currently displays even when off - just displays), multiple engines are working again.

Can anyone sum up the still-relevant problems?

I see the painful generic tanks, not working perfect reliability (I’m considering removing engine fault system altogether - it was never really good), weak electric vehicles.
Anything else?[/quote]

Those explosive zombies and nuisance shade zombies though… Fortunately those can just be blacklisted so no biggie

1. Overall sluggish game performance, at least directly compared with the 0.C Stable. delay between pressing ‘m’ and having the map show up is very noticeable. In the Stable version it runs like butter. It seems like the experimental is less responsive per every key press and approximately after every 10 or so movement steps it seems to additionally lag for a fraction of a second (like it would when autosaving). No idea why this happens, maybe it’s the dynamic lighting, maybe it’s some sort of fighting between factions. Could just be me too.
2. Scrolling through the fabrication recipes menu is laggy. It was bad in 0.CStable when in a fully stocked vehicle, but now it’s slower/similar to that. It’s agony when the thing you want to craft is equidistant from both the bottom and top of the list. That’s probably not something that can be fixed considering the sheer number of objects in the game though.
3. Eye straining neon-green light amp goggle vision. Great idea on paper, not so hot in practice. I understand that this is what the PC is supposed to be seeing but it doesn’t mean that my eyes need to bleed.
4. Desaturated colours in darkness. I get the idea but… why though. See above.
5. Weapon magazines. They can’t be disabled. Needless compexity, diverts attention away from fun gameplay (player patience and attention is a limited resource and diverting it into arbitrary micromanagement is bad game design. Having a large assortment of various ammunition and weapons to choose from is sufficiently complex.)
6. Filthy clothes. The function can be disabled but the brown text blends with the dark background making it hard to read. Maybe it can be changed in the colour options, haven’t messed with that but that’s what it is currently like by default.
   7.Vitamin system (can be disabled so not a problem, the actual issue is the fact that this system made it past the drawing board. Gauge management is clutter, tedious busywork. It takes fun from the game and turns it into work.)
7. Stamina system. Can’t be disabled. Needless complication of combat without benefit. Slows down game flow. Bad game design. Switching constantly between run/walk is yet another needless layer of complexity. What if I want to jog at a steady pace. More gauge management.
8. Refitting clothes with kevlar/leather via tailoring profession forces encumbrance increase by a set x%. This should be optional, as most encumbrance values of clothes are moddable.
9. Drop menu list forces you to scroll through the whole list starting with the clothes you are wearing. If I were to want to drop an unloaded camera, I’d have to scroll through all of my gold earrings and jade brooches. Occasionally the menu doesn’t stay consistent and has the worn clothes stay on the right hand side of the list like it was in 0.C stable (predictable behavior is good).
10. Stepping into webs forces the ‘sure you wanna go into webs’ prompt even when the Web Walker trait is selected.
11. When suddenly losing carry capacity, items over the limit are autodropped onto the ground without prompt/warning, resulting in ‘vanished’ equipment.

[Random_dragon]

4. Desaturated colours in darkness. I get the idea but… why though. See above.

When it was first added, I hated it because it removes a lot of the detailing for tiles, but it does have the advantage of making it easier to gauge at a glance how bright an area is, so you don’t blunder into the light and die of stupidity while doing a night raid.

5. Weapon magazines. They can’t be disabled. Needless compexity, diverts attention away from fun gameplay (player patience and attention is a limited resource and diverting it into arbitrary micromanagement is bad game design. Having a large assortment of various ammunition and weapons to choose from is sufficiently complex.)

…isn’t there a no magazines mod? >.o

[Taberone]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:430, topic:12504”]We fixed a lot of the problems mentioned here. Performance improved quite noticeably (especially crafting screen building), filthy is optional (though currently displays even when off - just displays), multiple engines are working again.

Can anyone sum up the still-relevant problems?

I see the painful generic tanks, not working perfect reliability (I’m considering removing engine fault system altogether - it was never really good), weak electric vehicles.
Anything else?[/quote]

Haven’t updated my game in a week, so some of this might have already been fixed.

Item wielding times are kinda an issue. You can’t get interrupted doing them, they always apply regardless of the situation (Wielding a gun from the ground because you have no space for it or disarming a NPC vs picking up a gun, shoving it into your backpack, and taking it out again) and they seem kinda extreme.

Tank drone bursts in and sets you on fire while you’re taking several weeks to pull out a large fire extinguisher? Zombie Hulk charging around the corner and punting you into the stratosphere while you’re trying to whip out a rifle? Angry NPC slowly tapping you to death with a .22? There’s no interrupt. You can interrupt crafting and reading if something hostile comes near or hurts you, but not wielding? It also always takes a long time to pull out pretty much anything larger than a water bottle.

Item wield times applying to disarming NPCs is also a bit frustrating too, since you still have to spend a long time wielding whatever you disarmed from the NPC while he’s free to beat you to death while you’re unable to resist.

[Rycon_Roleplays]

Just thought I’d add my two cents, I’m really enjoying the direction of the game. I wouldn’t call any aspects added agonizing at all. Keep up the good work everyone

[Grandpuh_Ty]

Why do people hate magazines so much? :C

[Taberone]

Why do people hate magazines so much? :C

When they were first implemented, you had the issue of guns spawning without magazines, and magazines being way too rare. That’s been fixed now, with magazines spawning in gun stores, and guns in gun stores spawning with magazines in them.

[Steelfist]

Is this a thread where you can vent? It is now!

I’ve been playing the game since it was first released, back when its only home was Bay12, and it didn’t even have a forum. I’ve noticed that, since it became Cataclysm: DDA, the devs (IMO) have had problems of varying degrees in dealing with tedium and ‘railroading’, for lack of a better word.

Take, for example, gun stores. My typical playstyle went spawn, find backpack, find gun store, loot, become a nomad, raid bunkers, become Rambo. Nowadays, because gun stores are all locked up, there are several annoyingly long steps before I get to the loot phase. They aren’t difficult, neither are they particularly rewarding. It just seems to add layer upon layer of tedium when you have to spend many real life minutes crafting a ram to smash through the store, or finding an item to help you make your way in.

Same goes, though much less so, for infections and zombie resurrection. I can forgive the latter, though, because I reckon it’s an adequate sacrifice for the spawn system, but infections often amount to “cauterize until all is well then wait out the pain”.

I’m not really sure I can say I’m a fan of how the game has panned out. I mean, I enjoy it, but I feel as though it has lost a lot of direction, focus and style that it had prior. To me, Cataclysm was never an ultra realistic survival sim (in many ways, it’s still not!), but rather a zombie shooting roguelike with influence from L4D and a varied pace. I find it disheartening that it is becoming harder and harder to play it that way.

[viggolo]

it wouldn’t be just venting if you pointed out the things that you find to be negative and why you think so (which have been implemented within the last 6+ months).

[kevin.granade]

I’m not really sure I can say I’m a fan of how the game has panned out. I mean, I enjoy it, but I feel as though it has lost a lot of direction, focus and style that it had prior.

I’ve seen this same statement a number of times, but I’ve never seen a descriprion of what it was about the previous incarnation of the game that is missing now. This makes it difficult to discuss.

To me, Cataclysm was never an ultra realistic survival sim (in many ways, it’s still not!), but rather a zombie shooting roguelike with influence from L4D and a varied pace. I find it disheartening that it is becoming harder and harder to play it that way.

The direction of the game has explicitly been “survival sim” ever since the fork. Saying it’s a bad shooter is like saying it’s a bad driving game. It is, but it’s also irrelevant, because it’s a survival sim.

If someone wants to make a shooter mod, they can certainly do so, and it probably wouldn’t be that hard, but I have no interest in making the core game a shooter or more action-y.