6+ months of agonizing "realism" nerfs have ruined this game

Game Talk The Bunker
401

[quote=“hexman, post:399, topic:12504”]Don’t know how much fun would the old releases be compared to the current versions but I would admit that the 0.C stable (which I was playing for a long while until recently) is much more cleaner than the current experimentals.

But it’s also a fact that a lot of good stuff has been added (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=13526.0) to the experimentals and, imho, to the seasoned DDA player, these features should be “fun” enough to keep them from going back to the stable.

With 0.D seeming a long way (https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/milestone/10) I would really suggest you to give the (latest) experimentals another try.[/quote]

I’m still playing with 0.C, mainly because I like long term plays with long term projects. The experimental, with all those radical changes every now and then upsets my no-change phobia.

Although I have had some playthroughs with some experimental, keeping up my own mods with it is very tiresome, the aforementioned radical changes makes stick with 0.C until the next stable.

402

Modders are free to PR fixes to mainline. This is much easier for both sides than implementing a whole modding interface just so that it can be exposed to the outside and much easier than using such an interface with all the limitations it would have to include.

The only sensible kind of interface that could be exposed to mods would be a pure lua callback that would (conditionally?) replace the overmap world gen. Then modders could reimplement the world gen from the lua side.
But even that would take quite a bit of work from the API side and I don’t see anyone requesting the feature or even promising to utilize it.

403

I haven’t played in a few weeks and didn’t get to play that much this weekend due to experimental being a bit buggy (documented) for my tastes.

I didn’t notice too much new insanity and did notice a few new changes I actually liked (reading screen for ex).

The only thing that I found off was how much time it was taking to move stuff between piles via advanced inventory. I mean…why. Why is there this ongoing attempt to put unnecessary time sinks into the game? It shouldn’t take my character hours to move crap from one pile to another pile right next to it.

404

Hearing you makes me want to hug my 0.C even more.

Please tell me it’s moddable.

405

[quote=“hexman, post:399, topic:12504”][quote=“wad67, post:398, topic:12504”]I find myself going back and playing really old releases of cataclysm(when vehicles were just a mod), and having more fun. Not sure what that is about.

The newer versions seem to be suffering from performance problems, most likely due to an overload of features.
It’s somewhat playable, but long actions feel like a crawl.

I’d enjoy it a lot more if it had some polish and optimizations.
At the moment it feels as if I am pressing way too many buttons and waiting way too long to achieve too little.[/quote]

Don’t know how much fun would the old releases be compared to the current versions but I would admit that the 0.C stable (which I was playing for a long while until recently) is much more cleaner than the current experimentals.

But it’s also a fact that a lot of good stuff has been added (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=13526.0) to the experimentals and, imho, to the seasoned DDA player, these features should be “fun” enough to keep them from going back to the stable.

With 0.D seeming a long way (https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/milestone/10) I would really suggest you to give the (latest) experimentals another try.[/quote]

I gave the latest experimental a try, tried turning off tiles, changing the size of the viewport, but still having performance issues. When moving around, every five to six tiles the game tends to hitch for about 300 ms or so. Virtually unplayable, had the delays set to 0, even turned force redraw off but still no luck.

0.C stable is a little better, I can run the game with tiles enabled, with maximum viewport size and I don’t get a great deal of hitching, actions generally go a bit faster too.
Much older versions of the game seem to run much, much faster. I have a copy of cataclysm that is from somewhere between 0.9 and 0.A.
It is screaming fast in comparison.

That’s my only major gripe really, Feels like too much time investment for too little reward.

406

New features minus all the bugs would be good, but that is the general goal :wink:

As for “realism ruining the game”…people are inconvenienced in real life and prevented from traversing space because we need air…in short?

This is not mario bros.

Play the version you want and suck it up. Realism in games is a good thing. You can passively understand everything instantly. How so? Well if you spit in the air what happens?

You do not know? Well stop playing…you tilted your head and all the rocks fell out =P

407

I don’t want to play a wilderness survival simulator, I want to play a zombie killing simulator.

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So start in the mall silly =P

409

Reminder: realism is fine until it makes the game worse. See prior remark about my constantly stating “realism should compliment gameplay, not detract from it” and the shitposting it provoked.

410

Hope that wasn’t aimed at moi. I was serious. It isn’t mario bros and if anyone cannot survive in the forest, chill at a mall.

Works for Romero wink =)

Sarcasm at its finest bro! Not only am I logical I’m funny :slight_smile:

411

Don’t you dare play like you want, you will play like I want. My way if the only correct way of playing, and everyone will do as I say because I said so.

412

^^

While I agree with you on this sentiment. I have to side with realism even if I dislike it. I will always side with realism unless another aspect of the game is either missing or broken.

I had these arguments all the time for 5 years over at the forums for the “freebie” version of Ultima Online. They kept adding more crap and slapping a band aid on them while leaving entire features out because it was to much work all at once. Then it just became impossible to keep up with so many large portions either broken or missing.

413

‘Makes the game worse’ is relative, but I agree that realism should compliment gameplay.

414

Removing the words ‘realism’ and ‘gameplay’ from some of these posts leaves no readable argument…

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Realism in gaming 101:

Features that are based upon real life. Such as gravity. Cause and effect. While not everything must follow this general rule of thumb. The more realism in a game the end result is a far more option friendly and intuitive game engine and game experience.

I could give examples, but that presumes everyone here is unable to understand the nature of this game title. Without sarcasm this time, I agree with realism as well as fun. I just sit in the realism camp stubbornly because I rather something make sense than not. Intuitive design is always better in my opinion. I want to be pissed when I have to mundane stuff. Why? Because it reminds me of how pissed I would be if I tried to do something retarded like wearing clothing off a sh!t smelling maggot ridden bloated rotten corpse and think I’ll have a nice day…not wearing undies and wearing those zombie pants…seriously…wtf? Why would I be ok and happy about this? lol

Optionally? sure, but it deserves to be in game.

…Like pissing and pooping! Seriously, it is funny and makes one think about how badly they wanna run across a herd to escape or to have a load in your pants lol XD

416

[quote=“ZoneWizard, post:415, topic:12504”]Realism in gaming 101:

Features that are based upon real life. Such as gravity. Cause and effect. While not everything must follow this general rule of thumb. The more realism in a game the end result is a far more option friendly and intuitive game engine and game experience.

I could give examples, but that presumes everyone here is unable to understand the nature of this game title. Without sarcasm this time, I agree with realism as well as fun. I just sit in the realism camp stubbornly because I rather something make sense than not. Intuitive design is always better in my opinion. I want to be pissed when I have to mundane stuff. Why? Because it reminds me of how pissed I would be if I tried to do something retarded like wearing clothing off a sh!t smelling maggot ridden bloated rotten corpse and think I’ll have a nice day…not wearing undies and wearing those zombie pants…seriously…wtf? Why would I be ok and happy about this? lol

Optionally? sure, but it deserves to be in game.

…Like pissing and pooping! Seriously, it is funny and makes one think about how badly they wanna run across a herd to escape or to have a load in your pants lol XD[/quote]

Another friendly reminder.

C:DDA Design Outline

We consider DDA a freeform, post-apocalypse, [i][b]low-intensity[/b][/i], reality-based, roguelike, with a focus on survival-sim elements and a heavy emphasis on scavenging.

Low-intensity means that the game is not constantly high-pressure, and not every move must be precisely calculated. It’s OK to relax and enjoy it; there will be aspects that you need not mess with, and that’s OK. Someone else will like those, and maybe even dislike the aspects that you enjoy. But there’s enough to go around. We neither need nor want competition for the “best” DDA player, and don’t even know how we’d define that. The Rule of Fun is prime: if it isn’t fun, you shouldn’t be doing it. That said, super-intense stuff may happen (and it may happen when you don’t want it to!) but the overall experience should come at you at whatever pace you choose to pursue. It should be just as possible to lead a slow and careful life in harmony with nature outside the cities as it is to make crazy laser-slinging assaults on superscience labs.

And here are a few nice thoughts about realism, if anyone bothers to read it.

417

Just mentioning a short and sweet realism idea. I don’t need a huge column about something as what I made mention of already.

Fun is great but like our late friend JRR Tolkien had in mind while writing. Flights of fantasy are great, just write 3 steps behind every idea to give it a history. This suspends disbelief.

That coupled with my comment about what IS realism should give most ideas a helping hand if you just make it work. You can shoe horn just about everything as long as you MAKE it make sense.

That help? =)

418

It was just a friendly reminder.

419

So I tried to give the changes to the vehicle screen time but to me this is another “why change this” thing. I’m not seeing any benefits to the new setup vs the tedium it introduces. Simple things like putting water or gas into your vehicle (when you have multiple tanks at least) are now a mullti step hassle. There also seems to be a bug with purifying water via FOODCO in that it somehow can magically turn a tank of dirty water into clean water in the same tank (whereas before you could only move dirty water to a clean tank via purification) - which isn’t all bad since more clean water is good.

But again, overall - I see zero positives to these changes vs a couple of negatives and again I’m guessing this change was done because some dev thought it would be cool but didn’t put enough thought into it all.

420

Required for generic tanks, mostly. Old UI couldn’t handle those well.