Zombie dogs (minor spoiler?)

Game Talk The Drawing Board
1

So zombie dogs got added in .4, in place of fresh/fast zombies. Like their predecessors, they’re faster than the player and nip. And somehow unlike regular wolves and dogs, they can break through windows.

I thought zombie dogs were a little lame, but meh, whatever. But then I ran across a Research Log in a lab where it said the X037 compound (or whatever it’s called) has no effect on non-human mammals.

So there seems to be a pretty serious breakdown in the backstory/lore here, especially since there’s no reason we shouldn’t have zombie bears and zombie wolves and zombie cougars now. I mean if we needed a “faster zombie” what was wrong with fresh/fast zombies? If fresh/fasts were too strong, why not just make them a tad weaker or less prevalent?

Zombie dogs just seems like a lame template gimmick.

2

That is only with limited testing though, although it does seem unreasonable they wouldn’t have dogs available to test but you never know, they probably tested it on rats and bears.

3

They used a different compound for dogs. No I dont know, im one who loves lore, so ill generally come up with something like that to fix the plot hole. But meh, my imagination is sorta…weird.

4

It mutated. Surely if we can have all different kinds of zombies, that the compound doesn’t magically pick from a pool of things, it just got out of hand and did its own thing.

5

I like the zombie dogs. The lore thing can be fixed or new lore added. The game isn’t in any kind of state we could call finished, so.

But I do think they shouldn’t be able to break windows. They’re already basically faster than you can ever possibly run, so it’d be a nice compromise. I’d like to be able to duck into an open window as an escape and have that actually work.

Also zombie dogs should bark and snarl and whatnot. They shouldn’t be as loud as the shrieker but there should be a bit of an alarm mechanism. It’d be fun to run into a house to escape a dog only to have the thing barking outside drawing a horde to your windows.

6

good point about the windows, I’ll take away their ability to bash windows.

The lore is a WIP along with the rest of the game, I think it’s more interesting to have zombie animals than not, but perhaps we can add somehting along the lines of infection being concentrated in cities.

7

Like REC? Where a dog infests the entire population (well, a building)? Would be awesome if the virus started mutating after entering the body of humen.

8

Having zombie dogs is meh. Not having zombie dogs is meh. Having only zombie dogs and not rabbits is lame.

Being able to flick a button in the options to have and not have various types of zombie mamals and what not would be awesome.

9

Why is having zombie dogs but not zombie rabbits lame?

It’s not like when it comes to viruses it’s Humans vs Animals, where if a virus can affect a dog it only makes sense that it will affect a rabbit as well.

It actually makes more sense for the virus to mutate to infect dogs because dogs cohabit with humans. In other words, there’s a lot more opportunity for a virus to mutate to infect dogs because we’re around them all the time. If a virus in a human or dog mutated in such a fashion that it could infect a bear or a rabbit, it would still need exposure and an opportunity to infect that animal before that mutation became recessive or disappeared entirely.

In terms of the virus being engineered, it is impossible to engineer a virus that will infect everything. Engineering a virus to infect dogs as well as people makes some sense though; humans are smart and have tools to avoid the virus, like special shelters, gas masks, whatever. Dogs don’t, and yet cities are full of them. If your goal is causing havoc and killing a lot of people with biological warfare, turning dogs into rabid undead killing machines is probably a pretty effective method. But I can’t see much justifcation for engineering zombie rabbits.

10

[quote=“Hyena Grin, post:9, topic:1053”]Why is having zombie dogs but not zombie rabbits lame?

It’s not like when it comes to viruses it’s Humans vs Animals, where if a virus can affect a dog it only makes sense that it will affect a rabbit as well.

It actually makes more sense for the virus to mutate to infect dogs because dogs cohabit with humans. In other words, there’s a lot more opportunity for a virus to mutate to infect dogs because we’re around them all the time. If a virus in a human or dog mutated in such a fashion that it could infect a bear or a rabbit, it would still need exposure and an opportunity to infect that animal before that mutation became recessive or disappeared entirely.

In terms of the virus being engineered, it is impossible to engineer a virus that will infect everything. Engineering a virus to infect dogs as well as people makes some sense though; humans are smart and have tools to avoid the virus, like special shelters, gas masks, whatever. Dogs don’t, and yet cities are full of them. If your goal is causing havoc and killing a lot of people with biological warfare, turning dogs into rabid undead killing machines is probably a pretty effective method. But I can’t see much justifcation for engineering zombie rabbits.[/quote]

Some animals are more believable than others.

For example, if we do have zombie dogs, we should almost certainly have zombie wolves. They’re virtually the same animal (and can interbreed).

Oh! We should have zoos. With zombie lions.

11

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:6, topic:1053”]good point about the windows, I’ll take away their ability to bash windows.

The lore is a WIP along with the rest of the game, I think it’s more interesting to have zombie animals than not, but perhaps we can add somehting along the lines of infection being concentrated in cities.[/quote]

Nooooooooo! Noooooo! Noooooo! Don’t take away their ability to bash windows! The whole reason I WANTED zombie dogs was so I could eventually place them outside the windows of mansions and they could leap through!

Admittedly, what I’d like to see them get more of a leap action that lets them break through windows and move through them at the same time, taking some damage but without giving them the huge window penalty.

As far as the lore goes, we’re expanding it. Dogs, Cats, and Bats are planned. The effect will be different on many animals - not all will turn into zombies the same way humans do. The cats and bats, for example, won’t be zombies, as the virus will begin taking over immediately. (but from a player perspective, they are close enough)

And the reason wolves and bears aren’t all zombies is because the slime infected the aquifers and reservoirs - there’s at least a decent chance they’ve so far avoided infection. Furthermore, unlike the town-critters, there’s nothing that would have been likely to kill them off, yet.

But have discussed wanting to add a chance for killed but unbutchered wolves and bears to rise again as zombified versions of themselves.

Rabbits and squirrels, however, have a better reason for not being susceptible to the virus. In mammals, there needs to be at least a certain amount of substance to stage a takeover. I doubt squirrels and rabbits would be large enough to manage that. In fact, it will be assumed that roughly 95% of cats die in the process of mutating instead of changing into their more deadly form, due to the size problem. Small dogs and baby humans would also probably not be reanimated.

Bats turn out to be a special case, being extremely susceptible. And even then, you’ll have whole colonies reduced to 5 or 6 members that lived through the forced enlarging (and a few that really, REALLY took to it, heh)

Insects, arachnids, and crustaceans are more amenable to the accelerated growth rate that allows the goo to take control, which is why you see giant bugs everywhere.

12

Yeah, I did see in one of the research logs that such an effect was described on insects. I thought that was cool.

13

Also, for those wondering, there is a reason why bats and cats, (and frogs) in particular, are more susceptible to mutation (despite being too small to properly zombify) than other critters would be. But I’ll leave that you guys to figure out. :wink:

14

Anyway, otherwise that’s all good. More enemy variety is fun. I still think zombie dogs shouldn’t be able to break glass, first because I think it makes them too much like regular zombies, second because it’s not very realistic (I’ve seen a dog jump at a plate glass window. It did not shatter. And the dog regretted it), and thirdly because I’d actually be more worried about a dog running circles around the house barking up a storm and summoning a zombie horde than the relatively quiet window smash it makes when it sacrifices itself to my javelin. But I’m not the one doing the coding so I’ll definitely leave that up to you, haha.

15

But…


and

:frowning:

16

Now now, a zombie dog goes for what it wants, right?
I say give them the ability to jump through windows if that feature ever gets merged.

17

[font=comic sans ms]
RE1, back when 3D was still new and a few thousand polys was high.
Still, Whales wanted more

[quote=“Whales”] More cultural references!
LOST: Black cloud monster, polar bear, hatches
Resident Evil style zombies
Kinda done with The Thing dog[/quote]
Found in the TODO file.
Personally I like them, so I vote for keeping them. But if someone is a great coder than we can have a chance for a hostile break in and a chance for a slow siege, but until them breaking windows is fine.
[/font]

18

You can have the “leap through windows” ability, that’s just fine, but for the time being I’m going to take away their bashing ability, particularly since it doesn’t make any distinction what they’re allowed to bash, so they can take down doors and fences too…

I really like the tactical aspect to it, you’re running from a pack of Zs, you outrun the regulars, but can’t lose the dogs, so you duck into a house, perhaps skirmish with a dog or two, then close the door, now you have until the regular zombies arrive to make your escape. (Although I could definitely see allowing dogs to come through (house, not plate glass) windows, but not doors)

19

Mostly everything else has a big brother so why not dogs too? Zombie Hound. Bigger, slower. Enough body mass (~45kg?) to smash through things like doors. (Maybe their smashing could have the same pattern as regular attacks, to simulate tackling or charging.) Jaws big enough to chew through things like fences too, I suppose.

20

Yeah, the more I think about it the more sense it make to make the window smash a special ability.

I’ve been planning how to do it, and I’ve been thinking I’d implement it like so:

"Dive"
More likely to occur at higher hp values - damaged creatures will be less likely to use this ability (or maybe just less capable of using it). This is mostly to guard against units killing themselves by hurling themselves against something hard to destroy.
Choose a clear or occupied (but not obstructed) spot exactly 2 spaces away, with non-occupied space between.
If there is a smashable object in the way, use this ability, smash in process.
If there is a gap object in the way (like a pit), use this ability, avoid in process.
Has a fairly long cool-down, way longer than smashing.
Damage-wise, works like a regular smash for chances to break and what it can break.
If any obstacle is not destroyed to a state where it allows passage, do moderate damages the zombie dog.
If an obstacle is destroyed, do light damage to zombie dog.
If obstacle destroyed or bypassed, place zombie dog in initially chosen space.
If player or zombie already occupies space, move player to adjacent open space (other than window) and give them “knocked down”.
If space is occupied and target can not be moved (say, a 1 tile size room), knock them down and place the zombie dog in the space it attempted to move past.

How does that sound?