Thoughts on Mutation

[quote=“Luissen, post:16, topic:3659”][quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:13, topic:3659”]Furry Sketchbook
"A sketchbook filled with assorted drawings and doodles of anthropomorphic creatures. While some are naked most of them are clothed and a skilled tailor might be able to make clothing for mutants from some of these ideas."
Tailor Skill required 6, Does not teach Tailoring. Comes with advanced mutant tailor recipes.[/quote]

I cracked up… Maybe give one to the Otaku class when starting the game? though that would make them more of “Internet Denizens”[/quote]

…Though it would explain the tail and ears. [size=1pt]I WOULD HOWEVER LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO POINT OUT WE’RE NOT ALL COMPLETELY DAFT- …Just a little.[/size]

And you can also add a tail-buttplug in the game so you can stre… uhm, learn to use the tail. Yup.

Now you’re just being insulting. XD

Is it possible for a man to jump over the shark by writing hilarious shit about furries?

[quote=“trusty_patches, post:20, topic:3659”]Is it possible for a man to jump over the shark by writing hilarious shit about furries?

I’ll give you that, but still XD There’s no need to be outright insulting…

I’m sympathetic to the desire to mitigate the drawbacks of mutations somewhat, but they are intended to be drawbacks, so we’re talking about mitigation here, not removing all penalties for them.

Any solution for “mutation-fit” clothing needs to be relatively simple. An example would be a “mutation fit” flag, and a corresponding “minor” version of the mutation flag that makes a mutation incompatable with clothing. The main problem with that is the flag would necessarally reduce effectiveness of clothing as well, which either requires a ton of special case code, or the stats being pretty non-representative most of the time. also we could tag some clothes “mutation-friendly” by default, like with a wrap or turban, etc. The problem there is that wouldn’t apply to pretty much any armor, just clothes.

Frankly I don’t have a good and simple system to do this, in addition to a rationale for it, you need a way for it to work.

Some stuff, like webbed hands, curled horns, antlers, just aren’t going to be compatable with most clothes.

I like the idea of mutation clothes and new categories (bat? naga? unspeakable horror? gimme!)

I know what you’re getting at it’s just always bothered me when the temperature starts dropping and the game is like “Welp, your hands are freezing now, guess you’re fucked. Good thing frostbite ain’t permanent eh?” and that’s that XD it’s been fixed a little with pockets but I just get the feeling that if I were desperate enough I’d find some way to keep my hands warm. Even if it isn’t pretty or comfortable.

Well, as has been suggested, hand wraps, mittens, possibly some other stuff could be marked mutation-friendly, it’s just things like cutting huge slots in helmets to allow wearing them with antlers or horns is starting to get crazy.

I can agree the slots is a bit absurd (I was kinda hoping someone would come up with something more… sane?), it’s not really my area of artistic experience, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have holes drilled into a helmet for non-brancy horns and antennae though.

I can agree the slots is a bit absurd (I was kinda hoping someone would come up with something more… sane?), it’s not really my area of artistic experience, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have holes drilled into a helmet for non-brancy horns and antennae though.[/quote]

I remember there was a big argument on the FA forums about that, someone had commented about how due to angles and location, (and the fact that large canid ears aren’t bulletproof) that putting holes into the helmet significantly reduced the effective protection value of the helmet.

Personally, I’d like to see players with tentacle arm mutations be able to wear socks on their hands.

I’ve been trying to draw PA for my character for ages, the short version is it’s damn near impossible to do it properly, cool? Fairly simple? Realistically? …Not so much.

[spoiler=The Long Version]When designing armor for a human, as a human things are on the simple side. You’ve got a round head, mostly flush against the skull soft ears, and hair that can either be “mushed” into the helmet or cut shorter. When working with horns, non-soft ears, snouts, and other protrusions it becomes considerably more complicated. Not to mention you’re no longer working from a perspective you “just know” and that’s a bigger factor than it sounds. When you look at armors like the fallout powered armor it already has clipping issues in of itself, when you start modifying it so that a creature with horns, big stupid ears, a snout, those collision issues get worse.

If for example you have a large, solid, armored ‘collar’ and a snout (That is enclosed in the helmet, because it has to be) you go to look to your right, and wham, your snout crashes into the collar. Possibly damaging your helmet, or at the very least leaving you with a nasty bruise if you ‘looked too hard’ you could lower the collar or change the opening in the front, but it results in less protection, and at that point you might as well remove the damn collar altogether.

Then there’s fingers. Fingers are an incredible pain to protect even on a human simply because of how much movement you need to have. When you get bigger fingers, or long non-simple protrusions on them it gets worse. That said, a simple plate of armor with a hinge above the wrist can cover the whole hand and possibly the fingers. Still, it’s extra weight and more metal.

Then there’s tails. Tails are hugely painful to armor for the same reason hands are difficult to armor. A less protective but more mobile solution is something of a “lobster tail” many armored plates that go down the tail it wouldn’t be that comfortable but it’ll do the trick. Using a clusterfuck of “scales” is less flexible, but covers the entire tail. It also restricts how thick the armor can be.

The obvious but hugely impractical solution is just sticking a larger helmet over the creature to cover these issues, a bubble of armor, or other things, but that much extra weight in bulky manners is just… Bad, not to mention looks horrible.[/spoiler]

Horns could maybe be clipped off with bolt cutters, and the opening cauterized with a heated knife, though without a high enough First Aid skill it’s going to be extremely painful and deal quite a bit of damage to the head. It won’t make you look any prettier either, but at least you’ll be able to wear helmets again.

A simple fix that I can think is–have the game check for certain mutations when fitting clothing. Maybe have mutation fit be a selection from sewing kits and soldering irons.

It would work like this: Let’s say you have a heavy survivor suit, wings, thorny skin and a spiked tail–you have two options at this point.

1: Tailor to mutations - The game checks your current mutations, then removes environmental protection, adds weight or cuts volume/armor out of the equation as needed. This would be checked each time you choose to use that particular function–so if you lose your tail for example you could/should refit the outfit when given the chance.

2: Force Fit - For particularly obtrusive mutations such as insanely strong, chitinous plate, wings, etc etc you could try to wear something that would fit you poorly regardless. In this case ((Or when wearing something and gaining a mutation)) I think the following could occur.

*Damages clothing, not repairable beyond that level while worn
*Adds 1 encumbrance via a Poor Fit status
*Negates effects like keeps you dry and lowers warmth, Environmental Protection.

This way a mutant with mandibles could make due with an ill-fitted gas mask, but should fit it given the chance. As a side note, mutation friendly tags for certain clothing should be part and parcel to this–and maybe a few articles of clothing added with mutation needed requirements ((Antler mounted spike rack anyone?))

It could also add some interesting give and take mutations like…


Mutation: Increases overall health pool, reduces dodge chances
Clothing Effect: Clothing is much heavier, bigger pockets means more volume as well


Mutation: Decreases overall health pool, raises dodge chances
Clothing effect: Clothing is much lighter, smaller pockets means less volume


Mutation: This would be a slime trait. Reduces encumbrance by one for each level of the trait. But by level 3 you CAN’T wear anything that isn’t water tight. Rain dilutes you, doing more damage, you can seep through bars/under doors when naked at level 3.
Clothing effect: See above

I’d also like to float the idea of two new concepts for mutations, those being triggered effects and associated skills. As an example let us suggest the following:


Mutation: Your forelegs have bloated with taut sinew, allowing you to leap great distances in a single bestial lunge.
Clothing effect: Only skirts, shorts and hotpants are mutation friendly with this…also chaps. Mutation fitted clothing would need to be baggier to allow you to move comfortably, so minor additional weight for fabrics, weight and encumbrance for hard armors.

THE NITTY-GRITTY: With this mutation you would be able to assign a key to its use via a MUTATIONS MENU–when you press said button you leap–which basically makes you aim yourself like a projectile. This will be great once Z-Levels make rooftops and skyscrapers a reality. Once having selected a square to leap you can collide with obstructions, miss your mark or in the case of an enemy unleash a sweet dropkick. How does it decide the outcome you ask?

Skill check.

When you get this mutation you gain an otherwise unobtainable skill called Leaping, since the act does not come naturally to human beings. Using the skill progresses your rank like any other–losing the mutation only eliminates the ability to train it, with the only downside being skill rust from disuse.

These two suggestions combined could allow such great moments as: Learning to charge like a bull, learning to fly by jumping off progressively taller structures, slowly acclimating to initially crippling mutations ((I.E. learning to ‘walk’ again with tentacle legs/serpentine lower body, extra legs which come out of the box with various speed debuffs))

You could even have professions that give you a bonus to these otherwise difficult to raise/attain skills and equipment for training them. For example a hang-glider starts with a wing-suit and some skill ((Allowing for graceful leaps of faith off of an infested high-rise)) Football player starts with charge and a helmet, gymnast gets leaping and a small trampoline etc etc.

I’ve a slew of suggested mutations relating to this concept, and on the whole I think they would greatly effect a much needed diversity between the current mutation branches. Especially if some need a certain point value of bad mutations to show up at all.

FINALLY - One last suggestion. Conditional Mutation Branches.

Otherwise hidden or unattainable mutation branches that require certain favorable conditions to be gained. An off the head example? Fungal Branch.

Requirements - Get infected with fungal spores
Drink some mutagen.
Slowly progress into a fungal-hybrid until the normally crippling symptoms transform into unlikely benefits. Probably super bad for the health of your pets and companions.

Other conditional mutation branches and there requirements off the top of my head…

Hive branch - Bugs under skin
Distinct from the insect/arachnid branches this makes you into a habitat for creepy crawlies instead of joining their ranks. While you would have to deal with the pain of these things living inside you it would have a mitigating mutation in the form of three tiers of masochist available. ((Ending with you positively elated by intense pain.)) Progresses towards spawning “Crawling Masses” of small, agitated vermin that are shaken loose by enemy blows and surge forth to defend their hive from danger. Makes you super susceptable to smoke, as your brood will bite their way out of you in fear of suffocation.

Carrier/Bacterial branches - Several infected wounds
Carrier makes you more akin to the various special zombies, mutagen having tossed you into a weird half dead limbo. Expect to excrete zombie pharamones, spit acid and be on every NPCs hit list.

Bacterial would slowly convert you into a walking colony of eurosocial bacteria. At its heart you would need ALL LIMBS EMPTY to die, but suffer massive debuffs for each empty limb. For example, losing your head makes you deaf and blind, arms remove the ability to weild weapons, open doors, legs is your movement. You’d also be much easier to damage, but have regeneration as a way to compensate.

Stimulated branch - Suffering a fatal overdose
In a nutshell you NEED stimulants to live. Period. Food doesn’t even phase you anymore. Your just riding out the high until you quite literally crash and burn. Increased buffs and durations from all drugs, immunity to overdoes ((And a benifit for being so doped up it would kill anything else)) and a slow spiral towards death should you run dry on things to snort, smoke or shoot up.

Technomorph - Several faulty bionics installed
Try not to think of this as the marriage of man and machine, but rather a pained train wreck of flesh and metal. You are much more likely to get failed installations as you progress through this branch, but it would have the benefit of adding utility to the various failed and installed bionics. ((For example making acidic discharge an activated, targetable spray, but adding nausea to your character if you don’t periodically discharge it. Solar panels and the internal furnace could reduce your hunger/thirst. You should also be able to just choose to install burnt out bionics.

Ok, we’re maybe getting somewhere, the individual mutations could be augmented with information about what penalties they inflict on clothing when the clothing is fit for them. Along with this, altered clothing would need to have a list of the mutations they’ve been fit for attached, so your trenchcoat knows it has an extra-high split for your tail, and cutouts for your wings, and enlarged sleeves so you can put it on over your talons. That’s all abstracted away as accumulative penalties though.

So mutations would by default not have a fit flag, it’s assumed it doesn’t interfere.
If it DOES interfere with some clothing, it has a entry that indicates what body parts conflict, and to what extent. Options include:
total - e.g. antlers, there’s basically nothing you can do to a normal helmet or hat to make it work with antlers, but this is overridden by the mutation friendly tag for clothing.
requires_fit - Can work if tailored, and specifies what penalties tailoring imposes on altered clothing, if any. This might be straight penalties, or percentages, or impose caps, have to put more thought into it.

A note on leaper, we’re planning on having a jumping mechanic anyway, this would just fold into that.

I heard “leaper” and immediately thought of Snorks… Still, could be amusing. XD

Just gonna bump this as the OP has some ideas I’m incorporating.

“type” : “mutation”,
“id” : “TAIL_THICK”,
“name”: “Thick Tail”,
“points”: 3,
“visibility”: 8,
“ugliness”: 2,
“description”: “You have a long, thick, lizardlike tail. It helps you balance a bit but also makes a serviceable-if a bit heavy-whip.”,
“prereqs”: [“TAIL_STUB”],
“cancels”: [“TAIL_FIN”, “TAIL_FLUFFY”, “TAIL_STING”],
“changes_to”: [“TAIL_CLUB”],
“category”: [“MUTCAT_LIZARD”]

After some modification to melee.cpp: your Thick Tail gives +2 to Dodge. You can “whap” someone with your Thick Tail for 8 bashing damage, provided you hit a 1/3 chance and then a 1/(10-DX) chance. So, if your DX is 10 or more, you can expect to tail-whip someone every third melee attack. 8 isn’t that much damage, but it’s better than Horns. By comparison, Club Tail gives no Dodge bonus and does 18 damage on a “club”.

Broke Cattle and Rat tails out into their own ones; Rat is two points Uglier for hairless, but otherwise both are functionally identical to the Long Tail.

More Lizard stuff. All this code isn’t quite copy-pasteable into your mutations.json–you should crop out some other stuff and it wouldn’t do much without modifying C++ and recompiling–but it ought to give a pretty good idea what’s involved.

Here, I took the OP’s idea of lizard-eyes and used it to break the actual vision upgrade out of the NV line. This reduces crossover between Lizard and the other categories, as well as making IR vision achievable for Lizard-category mutants.

    "type" : "mutation",
    "id" : "LIZ_EYE",
    "name": "Reptilian Eyes",
    "points": 0,
	"visibility": 2,
    "ugliness": 1,
    "description": "Your eyes have mutated, with a brilliant iris and slitted pupil similar to that of a lizard.  This is visually striking, but doesn't seem to affect your vision.",
	"leads_to": ["LIZ_IR"]
    "category": ["MUTCAT_LIZARD"]
    "type" : "mutation",
    "id" : "LIZ_IR",
    "name": "Reptilian IR",
    "points": 5,
    "description": "Your optic nerves and brain have mutated to catch up with your eyes, allowing you to see in the infrared spectrum.",
    "prereqs": ["LIZ_EYE"],
    "category": ["MUTCAT_LIZARD"]

TEAMWORK. HUZZA. Love the sound of it XD (Well, brainstorming, but still.)

Well, Lizard stuff at PR. [s]But something’s not working. >-(

Will look into it.[/s] Extra close-paren. Fixed.