I actually quite like the idea, the trick will be balance so that you don’t start with everything you need, but the items aren’t so expensive you ever spend points on them.
You’re rarely going to start with good items. You were on the way to an evac shelter, you didn’t stop the transport so you could go and grab a bunch of equipment. You’ll have the clothes your profession dictates and maybe a lightweight tool or weapon.
I like that better than a shop.
Much better than a shop imo.
By and large it’ll just be a system to enhance RP a little. You’ll start off with a vaguely formed backstory. Maybe you pick a mechanic, and your goal is to get back to the Garage you work in so you can collect your custom made wrench, perfectly weighted for you. Maybe you’re a doctor and, now that the shelter has all but emptied out, have decided to go the path of the Knights Hospitelier and take up the sword to defend your patients.
By default you’ll spawn with a pocket knife and lighter, but outside of that the stuff you get is going to be largely useless.
[quote=“The Darkling Wolf, post:25, topic:348”]By and large it’ll just be a system to enhance RP a little. You’ll start off with a vaguely formed backstory. Maybe you pick a mechanic, and your goal is to get back to the Garage you work in so you can collect your custom made wrench, perfectly weighted for you. Maybe you’re a doctor and, now that the shelter has all but emptied out, have decided to go the path of the Knights Hospitelier and take up the sword to defend your patients.
By default you’ll spawn with a pocket knife and lighter, but outside of that the stuff you get is going to be largely useless.[/quote]
I think some presets should get some decent items if their stats and traits are horrible. For example an elderly war vet with a host of health problems starting with his old army pistol and some prescription pain killers.
I’m firmly against randomized loadouts, for lack of a better term. It just encourages startscumming.
Agreed. Assured items are better than random, and i would rather always get a .22 rather than a chance at a .22, 9mm, .40, .44, or .45
If it comes down to it, i would like what Ogre Battle 64 did with its starting army generation more than pure randomness; where your chosen stats give a + or - to a set of specific items; then at the end of character generation, the +'s and -'s are checked, and the specific item from the correct value is given.
Even then though, i don’t like it.
The system i DO like, is one where stats, skills, and traits still influence items, but you’re given the choice about what items you can get through the point buy system. Stats give you points for the items (which can only be used for items) skills determine which items you can get, and then finally, traits and remaining character points can modify specific things. Additionally when item damage gets put in, the more “powerful” items can be degraded slightly, and the player can use some points to purchase undamaged ones. What can also be useful here is letting the player set what time the game starts at; it may not change the actual options the player has available, but it can still influence the players descision making and goals for character creation.
Oh, and please change skills from increasing in increments of 2, to a more normal “1 point = +1 skill” as this will give you more options for item placement based on skill, if you go that route (and let me buy only 1 point in First Aid/Mechanics instead of getting an unwanted second level and being incapable of aquiring a second skill)
How bout you start with some money and trade for the weapons?
Its a tiny bit more sane.
[quote=“The Darkling Wolf, post:25, topic:348”]By and large it’ll just be a system to enhance RP a little. You’ll start off with a vaguely formed backstory. Maybe you pick a mechanic, and your goal is to get back to the Garage you work in so you can collect your custom made wrench, perfectly weighted for you. Maybe you’re a doctor and, now that the shelter has all but emptied out, have decided to go the path of the Knights Hospitelier and take up the sword to defend your patients.
By default you’ll spawn with a pocket knife and lighter, but outside of that the stuff you get is going to be largely useless.[/quote]
I actually think this would be better then allocating points to items since this not only stops the startscumming that would happen with random starting loot, but it also makes sense from a more lore perspective. However would this be for skills in general when you make a custom character or for preset characters?
Pocket knife? Fuck yes.
What if, instead of spawning with items based on skills, players could select a few items at character creation, aperhaps as traits, or as part of a completely seperate step in character creation.
I really like the careers idea, personally. But with as strongly as people feel about this maybe having multiple methods would be better? Trying to balance between them would be an ordeal. I put up a thread before about my ideas for character creation. Careers is much closer to that.
That was discussed on page 2, most people don’t like the idea of a item shop and would rather have items to do with your profession.
That will not sound like an item shop to me… at least if it used your creation points.
Using creation points is the definition of a item shop.
Spending stat/trait points on items would be an unconscionable waste of an extremely finite resource, like buying skills at present.
[quote=“Miloch, post:36, topic:348”]Using creation points is the definition of a item shop.[/quote]since when? to me the definition of an item shop is a place where you buy things.
The original idea I had with the item shop system was to have a seperate points system from creation points hence why I called them tokens rather than points. This would mean you could still spend precious points on your character whilst have a very limited item shop that varied greatly depending on skills and traits you took. Of course what items and how many tokens you start with that I mentioned could be more balanced.
For example with the pistol skill, you might not nessecerally have a pistol in the shop, but maybe small amounts of low caliber ammo (or even parts of low caliber ammo such as ammo cases or gunpowder, depend how far the DDA team want to balance such things so that you don’t start of with many useful items).
It looks though that we might be looking more towards career options instead with set starting items, which again I’m in favour of. Only thing I ask is if the career option is either part of when you make your own custom class or if it rather set in stone as a preset?
I agree with the voices against randomization. It’s all too tempting to startscum for a good starting item.
There seem to be three goals of starting kit that are somewhat at cross-purposes.
One is supplying some basic necessities so the character isn’t completely helpless. This is the pocketknife and lighter type thing, also including Xanax, glasses, and inhaler, and possibly a suboptimal container so the starting character doesn’t have to ignore good loot until they do find some kind of container. I don’t think there’s any controversy on this part of it.
Second is not wanting investments in skill points to go to waste. I think this is where “spending points in skills gets you items” comes from. Basically you don’t want to invest in a skill and then be unable to use it, such as with firearms. Especially with static spawns where the “shopping spree” period has been abolished, and making it to a gunstore requires significantly more effort and risk. Surviving and bootstrapping yourself from nothing is a core part of the game, if you can drop a few points in firearms and go take on the horde head-on from the start, it seems to detract from the survival aspect of the game. Particularly if taken to the extreme, you might end up with the ideal equipment for your build and have no reason to challenge yourself to acquire more loot, bypassing a large pert of the game. That’s not to say that the game is at an ideal point with respect to starting conditions, there’s a reason static spawns are default off after all. Personally I’m against providing a wide variety of options for this. Perhaps picking out a basic item per skill where needed would be worthwhile.
Last there’s the desire to customize the character, which I think is where people want choices in which firearm or melee weapon they start with, possibly to the extent of spending starting points on them. I’m more torn on this aspect, I can definitely see the attraction of “I’m playing a fireman who carried a small child out of the city to the shelter, only to collapse in exhaustion upon arrival…” and wanting a specific loadout of equipment to reflect this, but inevitably this kind of option turns into “which template is best for melee characters?”
In the end though, I’m not sure how much a problem it is. I want the default loadout to be playable but challenging, but I’m not particularly opposed to having the option to start with decent equipment, as long as it doesn’t become the de-facto default, shortcutting the early game entirely.
I like the idea of making it clear how easy you’re making your character to play, which gave me an interesting idea. Instead of providing a limited number of character points to “spend”, you could freely choose aspects to add, but as you do so it sets a difficulty level for the player. If you start out with pathetic stats, no skills, and no equipment, it gets labelled an ultra-hardcore character, then as you add things that make the game easier, the label changes to reflect that you’re making it easier and easier. Worth thinking about. The career option fits into this easily as each career will automatically be labeled with how difficult it is.