Spawning With Items

[GlyphGryph]

It’s been mentioned that players might be starting with items. This is how I think it should be handled.

Item spawns are based on relevant skills/stats/traits plus a bit of chance? (I think that would be even cooler)
First point in mechanics at start gives a toolbag and a tool, and each additional point gives a 50% chance of a tool you don’t yet have.

Firearms skill obviously have a chance to start you with a gun and a bit of ammo for it.

Survival gives a chance for backpack and knife.

Melee skill gives a chance of a random weapon, with sub-melee skills making certain weapons more likely IF you get one.

Would making picking starting skills a bit more viable as a meaningful option. We already start with traits that give items (asthmatic, near-sighted), so this seems like it would be a pretty easy change.

[Reservoir]

If you select handguns, you should get a handgun, not a grenade launcher and the same thing with all the other guns/meele skills
Computers should give electrohack or some kind of useful tool for hacking (electrohacks, maybe?)
But what about swimming, driving, throwing, barter, speech…?

[AseaHeru]

spears for throwing.
books for most, goggles for swimming… leather jacket for driving?

[GlyphGryph]

Not every skill will be a guarantee of an item.

For example, say we have a basic 5 “draws” per item generating skill. They all start as “no item”.
So 4 points in Firearms and 3 points in Pistol and 1 in Grenade Launcher would give you three opportunities:
80% chance of random gun (though it may not be truly random, probably a weighted average. We’ll say 30% pistol, 30% rifle, 30% shotgun, 20% grenade launcher).
60% chance of random pistol.
20% chance of random grenade launcher or grenade launcher attachment.

If you’re lucky, you could get a grenade launcher AND a pistol AND a random gun (they all start with at least a bit of ammo of the appropriate type, presumably). If you’re not, you could get nothing. Even just mild luck will probably result in you getting two pistols or a pistol and a rifle/shotgun.

Firearms should probably also a chance of getting a holster as well.

[The_Darkling_Wolf]

The system I was looking at adding was a more career based one. Where you select a pre-cataclysm career instead of manually allocating points, and the game gives you a set of skills and relevant items. It would generally avoid anything particularly good, like you wouldn’t have your tools with you because whoever was running the evac shuttle told you that the space was more valuable to cram a person into rather than a toolbox.

[Reservoir]

[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:4, topic:348”]Not every skill will be a guarantee of an item.

For example, say we have a basic 5 “draws” per item generating skill. They all start as “no item”.
So 4 points in Firearms and 3 points in Pistol and 1 in Grenade Launcher would give you three opportunities:
80% chance of random gun (though it may not be truly random, probably a weighted average. We’ll say 30% pistol, 30% rifle, 30% shotgun, 20% grenade launcher).
60% chance of random pistol.
20% chance of random grenade launcher or grenade launcher attachment.

If you’re lucky, you could get a grenade launcher AND a pistol AND a random gun (they all start with at least a bit of ammo of the appropriate type, presumably). If you’re not, you could get nothing. Even just mild luck will probably result in you getting two pistols or a pistol and a rifle/shotgun.

Firearms should probably also a chance of getting a holster as well.[/quote]
Re-start the game until you get the guns.

[GlyphGryph]

Restart the game until the survivor NPC gives you a gun? I don’t think anyone actually does that.

TDW - I don’t know if I like “careers” determining your point allocations. Maybe item-sets, and a default point allocation, but if we are going to do itemsets I would rather they be selectable, and “careers” just be a set of defaults for stats/itemsets.

Maybe allow every character to get one itemset, and some are free (Businessman, start with briefcase), some are 2 points (student, start with happy drugs, backpack, and a book or two, police officer, start with a holster, a pistol, and a nightstick), or even more points for starting as, say, a Soldier, Scientist or Survivalist.

Except not police officer since that profession doesn’t exist in the world of Cataclysm, but you know what I mean.

Alternately, do straight careers, but break things up into “Cakewalk”, “Difficult”, and “Punishing” careers. Simply putting a stated difficulty level is surprisingly effective at preventing players from always choosing the “best” option, by reframing the choice.

[Reservoir]

I mean, if I had a 40% of chances of spawning with a gun, Id restart the game in the case I didnt get it.

[GlyphGryph]

So maybe chance-based acquisition is the wrong way to go about it.

Maybe you’ll get a random gun, but if you purchase a certain amount of points an item is guaranteed.

Firearms:
1 points - random firearm
2 points - some Ammo to go with it
3 points - some more Ammo
4 points - a gun mod

Subskill: Pistol
1 point - guarantee any random firearm will appear in this group (unless you have another group with a point in it, in which case 50/50, unless you’ve already got a weapon in the other group, in which case right back to guaranteed)
2 point - holster, some pistol ammo
3 point - random firearm from this group in addition to any weapon from firearms
4 points - some more pistol ammo

[Jack_Slinger]

The current point system although far from perfect lets you make up your own ‘careers’ in effect, which can be fun to role play. Making you choose from a limited selection of jobs would seem a bit limiting for me, setting up a build that matches how you play is part of the fun for me.

[The_Darkling_Wolf]

[quote=“Jack Slinger, post:10, topic:348”]The current point system although far from perfect lets you make up your own ‘careers’ in effect, which can be fun to role play. Making you choose from a limited selection of jobs would seem a bit limiting for me, setting up a build that matches how you play is part of the fun for me.[/quote]That will still be an option, the careers will just be supplementary for people who want to use them. I’m tossing ideas around in my head.

[KA101]

[quote=“Reservoir, post:2, topic:348”]If you select handguns, you should get a handgun, not a grenade launcher and the same thing with all the other guns/meele skills
Computers should give electrohack or some kind of useful tool for hacking (electrohacks, maybe?)
But what about swimming, driving, throwing, barter, speech…?[/quote]

Barter ought to have lightweight & high-value items–if NPCs actually valued drugs, I’d go with those (say, 100 cigarettes or something).

Electrohacks, at last check, only work on card readers. Having an SICP or 301 book & come caffeine might make sense.

–
As for the idea generally, it reminds me of FO:T. it’s an interesting way to make buying skills more viable, but since most skillbooks are low-level, I’d suggest that we take that into consideration: perhaps points in Unarmed might get a better item than points in Melee, since there’s an Unarmed book to supply the first character-point of Unarmed.

[Jack_Slinger]

As long as you can still role our own, having pre-made careers sounds good, I was planing to make up some of my own using the template system anyways.

[Benedict]

The system I was looking at adding was a more career based one. Where you select a pre-cataclysm career instead of manually allocating points, and the game gives you a set of skills and relevant items. It would generally avoid anything particularly good, like you wouldn’t have your tools with you because whoever was running the evac shuttle told you that the space was more valuable to cram a person into rather than a toolbox.

How about separating attribute points and skill points?

We’d still get the same (perhaps slightly reduced, if it’s imbalanced) number of attribute points available, but skill points would be a separate pool - or would be allocated based on career, with no player choice.

It’s not like it’d be that big a deal in terms of gameplay. In the early game items are far more useful than skills (except perhaps melee skills), and by the later game you can hone your skills all you like.

[Captain_Cabinet]

[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:4, topic:348”]Not every skill will be a guarantee of an item.

For example, say we have a basic 5 “draws” per item generating skill. They all start as “no item”.
So 4 points in Firearms and 3 points in Pistol and 1 in Grenade Launcher would give you three opportunities:
80% chance of random gun (though it may not be truly random, probably a weighted average. We’ll say 30% pistol, 30% rifle, 30% shotgun, 20% grenade launcher).
60% chance of random pistol.
20% chance of random grenade launcher or grenade launcher attachment.

If you’re lucky, you could get a grenade launcher AND a pistol AND a random gun (they all start with at least a bit of ammo of the appropriate type, presumably). If you’re not, you could get nothing. Even just mild luck will probably result in you getting two pistols or a pistol and a rifle/shotgun.

Firearms should probably also a chance of getting a holster as well.[/quote]

If you introduce a random element to getting items based on what skills you’ve chosen then some players may restart to try and exploit it.

One option would be to allow people to spend points on starting items like you can with skills and traits.

Another option would be to assign items to skill levels with no random element.

(If this was the case I think you should at least have 4 levels in a skill before you get an item out of it.)

eg
** rifle = nothing
**** rifle = BB rifle and 100x bb
****** rifle = Marlin 39A and 50x .22

**survival = nothing
**** survivals = steak knife
****** survival = messenger bag and steak knife

[Fengferth]

[quote=“The Darkling Wolf, post:5, topic:348”]The system I was looking at adding was a more career based one. Where you select a pre-cataclysm career instead of manually allocating points, and the game gives you a set of skills and relevant items. It would generally avoid anything particularly good, like you wouldn’t have your tools with you because whoever was running the evac shuttle told you that the space was more valuable to cram a person into rather than a toolbox.

How about separating attribute points and skill points?

We’d still get the same (perhaps slightly reduced, if it’s imbalanced) number of attribute points available, but skill points would be a separate pool - or would be allocated based on career, with no player choice.

It’s not like it’d be that big a deal in terms of gameplay. In the early game items are far more useful than skills (except perhaps melee skills), and by the later game you can hone your skills all you like.[/quote]

Expanding on to this idea, what about if you had tokens to spend on a starter shop, the shop contains a few items that vary depending on :-

*Skills taken
*Traits taken

A few examples :-

*I start off with 10 tokens (or whatever you wanna call them) let’s say I pick 1 point into pistols, the store then unlocks a few low caliber pistols that are worth say 2 tokens. If I take 3 points into it instead then higher calibers will unlock but cost more tokens (4 tokens for example)

*So I have 1 point in survival, lovely I’ll buy that rollmat for 1 token. 3 Points in survival??? Great I’ll have that backpack instead for 5 tokens.

Of course the selection should be limited to some degree.

Just an idea throwing out there

[Captain_Cabinet]

[quote=“Benedict, post:14, topic:348”][quote=“The Darkling Wolf, post:5, topic:348”]The system I was looking at adding was a more career based one. Where you select a pre-cataclysm career instead of manually allocating points, and the game gives you a set of skills and relevant items. It would generally avoid anything particularly good, like you wouldn’t have your tools with you because whoever was running the evac shuttle told you that the space was more valuable to cram a person into rather than a toolbox.

How about separating attribute points and skill points?

We’d still get the same (perhaps slightly reduced, if it’s imbalanced) number of attribute points available, but skill points would be a separate pool - or would be allocated based on career, with no player choice.

It’s not like it’d be that big a deal in terms of gameplay. In the early game items are far more useful than skills (except perhaps melee skills), and by the later game you can hone your skills all you like.[/quote]

Expanding on to this idea, what about if you had tokens to spend on a starter shop, the shop contains a few items that vary depending on :-

*Skills taken
*Traits taken

A few examples :-

*I start off with 10 tokens (or whatever you wanna call them) let’s say I pick 1 point into pistols, the store then unlocks a few low caliber pistols that are worth say 2 tokens. If I take 3 points into it instead then higher calibers will unlock but cost more tokens (4 tokens for example)

*So I have 1 point in survival, lovely I’ll buy that rollmat for 1 token. 3 Points in survival??? Great I’ll have that backpack instead for 5 tokens.

Of course the selection should be limited to some degree.

Just an idea throwing out there :p[/quote]

I’m dead against the idea of a starting shop for items, you should get items based on your skills.
I quite like The Darkling Wolf’s suggestion of preset characters.

[AseaHeru]

Or atleast skills.
perhaps you can take one and change it a bit?

[KA101]

Preset characters shouldn’t be mandatory, at least.

I’d prefer the skill-based shop to having to buy level 6 in a skill in order to get…a decent bag and a “weapon” available in restaurants/houses/mansions. If I’m paying character points for an item, it had better be one that I’d be happy to find in the first 90 minutes. (By comparison: 3 character points to start with a basic unarmed combat form, or level 6 in a skill.)

Survival: rollmat/hatchet/wood ax (backpacks aren’t that uncommon)
Dodge, level 2-3: fitted clothing (I put one point into it anyway)
Swimming: goggles, possibly CBM:Aquatic for 3 points’ worth/level 6, since that’s a hella investment without knowing what water is around
Construction: Nailgun & 100 Nails/shovel/wood ax
Mechanics: Wrench/MechMastery (advanced books don’t always show up)
Cutting Weapons: Spetsnaz/Combat Knife/Machete (if buying level 6…)

[Fengferth]

[quote=“Fengferth, post:16, topic:348”][quote=“Benedict, post:14, topic:348”][quote=“The Darkling Wolf, post:5, topic:348”]The system I was looking at adding was a more career based one. Where you select a pre-cataclysm career instead of manually allocating points, and the game gives you a set of skills and relevant items. It would generally avoid anything particularly good, like you wouldn’t have your tools with you because whoever was running the evac shuttle told you that the space was more valuable to cram a person into rather than a toolbox.

How about separating attribute points and skill points?

We’d still get the same (perhaps slightly reduced, if it’s imbalanced) number of attribute points available, but skill points would be a separate pool - or would be allocated based on career, with no player choice.

It’s not like it’d be that big a deal in terms of gameplay. In the early game items are far more useful than skills (except perhaps melee skills), and by the later game you can hone your skills all you like.[/quote]

Expanding on to this idea, what about if you had tokens to spend on a starter shop, the shop contains a few items that vary depending on :-

*Skills taken
*Traits taken

A few examples :-

*I start off with 10 tokens (or whatever you wanna call them) let’s say I pick 1 point into pistols, the store then unlocks a few low caliber pistols that are worth say 2 tokens. If I take 3 points into it instead then higher calibers will unlock but cost more tokens (4 tokens for example)

*So I have 1 point in survival, lovely I’ll buy that rollmat for 1 token. 3 Points in survival??? Great I’ll have that backpack instead for 5 tokens.

Of course the selection should be limited to some degree.

Just an idea throwing out there :p[/quote]

I’m dead against the idea of a starting shop for items, you should get items based on your skills.
I quite like The Darkling Wolf’s suggestion of preset characters.[/quote]

You would still get items based on your skills, but instead of random chance you get to choose a small varitey of items depending on what skills (or traits depending) you take. Limited tokens (points) would restrict what you can actually take depending on skill level.

It was just an idea for an alternative to random chance of starting loot since some aren’t too keen on the idea.