Some Vehicle-Themed Ideas

[An0n3]

I keep having problems (maybe it’s specific to the RV?) where mobs can pass through or attack me diagonally from behind the wheels into the driver’s compartment.

I double checked that the roofs are intact (and even added some more to be sure) but for some reason diagonal inside/outside checks are bugged. Everything is properly recognized as in or out as it should be, but that wont stop all these cougars and whatnot from charging into my face.

Not sure how you’d ever fix that or the problem where vehicles will read as open locations during turns because of the way the tiles line up creating gaps.

Oh well.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

This is why custom vehicles are better. Frames don’t block movement- zombies can climb into the driver’s cabin of vanilla vehicles through the frames on each side of the windshield.

(use doors to block movement and allow vision- but beware they’re more fragile than frames.)

[kevin.granade]

We had a discussion a while back about this, and the best thing I came up with is adding virtual squares when a vehicle is rotated to avoid thse gaps, like:

0==0
|""|
+##+
+##+
|HH|
0==0

0==0\
\|""|
 +##+\
 \+##+
  |HH|\
  \0==0

The ‘’ would only apear next to squares that block movement (so none around your mororcycle or ATV) and any impact they have would count against the square they spawn next to.

[Baltazargompka]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:38, topic:3254”]I think it’d just be inferior in every way to solar- plentiful fuel? Solar is free and automatic.
The trade-off is lower performance and longer startup? Sounds like a certain alternative that already exists.[/quote]

Correct. I’ve mentioned steam power because in real live, it remains the most affordable, just after muscle power. With enough skill and right tools, you can build a steam vehicle in your garrage. While solar panels and high capacity batteries are sofisticated stuff you wouldn’t be able to reproduce. After a finite period of rough use, your electric car would start to brake down, irrecoverably.
The problem is that vehicles in Cataclysm are “entropyproof”. You can repair them and keep them functional ad infinitum. In real life, after the end of the world of course, you would have to choose the most affordable form of locomotion. Gasoline would run out and electric cars would brake down, leaving you with steam car. Or a bicycle. Or a horse.
Add horses…

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Tempblocks:
Hrm, how much of an effect would that have on driving through tight spaces though? It seems like it would only be a problem if the car is parked diagonally, and there’s a really easy workaround for that: don’t park diagonally.

Bltazar:
I don’t see the need for it, not in the main version at least. Trying to incorporate it would mean no more crafting electronics, no more flawless steel reforging, and starting later so that we actually play long enough to see electronics fall apart; for steam power to see use would require a considerable effort. In the meantime, gameplay-wise, the niche it would fill is filled by solar- it seems superfluous.

[An0n3]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:42, topic:3254”]This is why custom vehicles are better. Frames don’t block movement- zombies can climb into the driver’s cabin of vanilla vehicles through the frames on each side of the windshield.

(use doors to block movement and allow vision- but beware they’re more fragile than frames.)[/quote]

Yeah I’ve heard about the EVERYTHING IS DOORS strategy but it just doesn’t sit well with me.
Guess I should replace everything with boards and plates.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

You can’t see through boards. If it makes you feel better, just imagine the ‘doors’ as reinforced windows you’ve mounted on hinges- something that you can see through, stops movement, but someone with dextrous fingers (read: not zombies) can open.

–oh, and you can still have windshields in there, in fact you can put them on the offending frames, but doors are better.

[Weyrling]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:47, topic:3254”]You can’t see through boards. If it makes you feel better, just imagine the ‘doors’ as reinforced windows you’ve mounted on hinges- something that you can see through, stops movement, but someone with dextrous fingers (read: not zombies) can open.

–oh, and you can still have windshields in there, in fact you can put them on the offending frames, but doors are better.[/quote]
I personally use windshields instead of doors, even though I have to regularly replace them, just doesn’t feel right using doors.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Yo, yall need to work on your imaginations- a rose by any other name is a rose, here’s the properties of ‘doors’:

-Allows vision
-Prevents movement
-Can be open or closed

Here’s the properties of a ‘jury-rigged window’:
-Allows vision
-Prevents movement
-Can be open or closed

Just because they’re called ‘doors’ doesn’t mean they have to be.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:49, topic:3254”]Yo, yall need to work on your imaginations- a rose by any other name is a rose, here’s the properties of ‘doors’:

-Allows vision
-Prevents movement
-Can be open or closed

Here’s the properties of a ‘jury-rigged window’:
-Allows vision
-Prevents movement
-Can be open or closed

Just because they’re called ‘doors’ doesn’t mean they have to be.

…Such planning would have saved my sorry ass in my most recent game. (Hit a bear, gas tanks went off in a blast that’d have done Michel Bay proud. Had to go though the fire to get out, did not work.)

[Weyrling]

Just because they’re called ‘doors’ doesn’t mean they have to be.

My issue is mostly the part where you turn a steel frame transparent through some kind of magic, if a transparent door required steel and glass I wouldn’t mind at all.
Or if we had ‘steel bars’ we could use in place of windows, that’d work too.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:49, topic:3254”]Just because they’re called ‘doors’ doesn’t mean they have to be.

My issue is mostly the part where you turn a steel frame transparent through some kind of magic, if a transparent door required steel and glass I wouldn’t mind at all.
Or if we had ‘steel bars’ we could use in place of windows, that’d work too.[/quote]

Steel bar jury-rigged open-air window properties:
-Allows vision
-Prevents movement
-Can be open or closed

[Weyrling]

I could pretend that ‘doors’ are actually hinged windows, or steel bars, but I post in The Drawing Board about things I would like to see changed or improved, either functionally or thematically.

If it’s actually a window of some kind it should probably require glass, if it’s made out of steel bars, maybe you should need rebar instead of a steel frame.
I’m kind of unsure why a door made out of solid steel can be transparent, but maybe thats just me.

Whether or not these components would all have very similar (but subtly different) properties doesn’t mean we shouldn’t add new things or change crafting recipes to make more sense.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

‘Steel frame: A large frame made of steel. Useful for crafting.’ is a very ambiguous item, purposefully. The use of our imagination for what it should be both cuts down on programming overhead and makes the crafting system more efficient, (and I assert fun).
Current system for adding a car door to a deathdozer 9000:

1. Remove car door from wreck for 1x steel frame
2. Install car door on deathdozer 9000 with 1x steel frame

Nightmare scenario, (which is entirely reasonable)

1. remove medium door from wreck
2. dissassemble medium door- retrieve 4x medium L-frames 1x small glass pane 10x small machinery 3feet electronics 1x hinges
3. smelt 10x small machinery into 2x medium |-frame
4. Acquire 2x small glass plates
5. Smelt 3x small glass panes into 1x large glass pane
6. Acquire 20x medium bolts 1x medium L-frame
7. Combine 20x medium bolts, 2x medium |-frames & 5x medium L-frames to make 1x Large door
8. Acquire 1foot electronics & 1x hinges
9. Install 1x Large door on deathdozer 9000 with 4feet electronics and 2x hinges

Transparent solid-(wood) door:

What I’m saying is, so long as the recipes are ambiguous and the results defined by their properties, we don’t need to be explicit, and indeed it may be a good thing.
I’m for adding new functionality- bush guards to protect lights, aimable spotlights, dozer bumpers. But introducing (what I assert is) needless complexity to a system that works? That’s a harder sell for me good sir.

[Weyrling]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:54, topic:3254”]What I’m saying is, so long as the recipes are ambiguous and the results defined by their properties, we don’t need to be explicit, and indeed it may be a good thing.
I’m for adding new functionality- bush guards to protect lights, aimable spotlights, dozer bumpers. But introducing (what I assert is) needless complexity to a system that works? That’s a harder sell for me good sir.[/quote]
You make some good points, but my main point wasn’t about having more complexity the way you described it. I was thinking more along the lines of just having more ways of doing things, rather than adding more steps.

For example having steel bars as a component, it would be lighter than a wall or door, obstruct movement, and be transparent. You could either attach it to a frame/board as a barrier (like a cage around your motorcycle seat) or reinforce a windshield with it. Or perhaps having a ‘glass door’ made out of a sheet of glass instead of a steel frame.

[Miloch]

Currently I think we need to tone down the ability of solar panels to generate electricity a bit. Seems like it could use some tweaking. I just figured it was being left as is until they have time to re-balance it correctly. I think they’ve gone a long way towards balancing out vehicles in general.
The wrecks and stuff in cities make it much harder to just drive through town (smushing zombies as you do).
The changes to vehicle collision physics make a lot of sense to me also.
Gasoline being somewhat rarer isn’t bad either.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“Miloch, post:56, topic:3254”]Currently I think we need to tone down the ability of solar panels to generate electricity a bit. Seems like it could use some tweaking. I just figured it was being left as is until they have time to re-balance it correctly. I think they’ve gone a long way towards balancing out vehicles in general.
The wrecks and stuff in cities make it much harder to just drive through town (smushing zombies as you do).
The changes to vehicle collision physics make a lot of sense to me also.
Gasoline being somewhat rarer isn’t bad either.[/quote]

Before solar was too weak (Mainly because you could go months without sun and then when it finally came out only get 2% charge on a battery for the hour the sun was out.) now solar’s a bit too strong… Still, overshoot, undershoot… Logic says it’ll be close enough next XD

Though it is a bit of a pain to try and drive though a city when even at 9MPH you end up plowing into a wreck and losing a good chunk of your vehicle

[GrizzlyAdamz]

[quote=“Weyrling, post:55, topic:3254”][quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:54, topic:3254”]What I’m saying is, so long as the recipes are ambiguous and the results defined by their properties, we don’t need to be explicit, and indeed it may be a good thing.
I’m for adding new functionality- bush guards to protect lights, aimable spotlights, dozer bumpers. But introducing (what I assert is) needless complexity to a system that works? That’s a harder sell for me good sir.[/quote]
You make some good points, but my main point wasn’t about having more complexity the way you described it. I was thinking more along the lines of just having more ways of doing things, rather than adding more steps.

For example having steel bars as a component, it would be lighter than a wall or door, obstruct movement, and be transparent. You could either attach it to a frame/board as a barrier (like a cage around your motorcycle seat) or reinforce a windshield with it. Or perhaps having a ‘glass door’ made out of a sheet of glass instead of a steel frame.[/quote]

Ah ok, fair enough then! Hrm, what would be the balance for rebar vs windows & walls though? Stopping movement & allowing vision are very desirable traits- doors compensate by being fragile, (kind of). Maybe we could do something similar to EP, except with cars?

I agree with solar panels- from the behavior my 4-panel vehicle demonstrates, it seems as if I’d only really need 1 to keep my base mobile & swimming in power.

[An0n3]

So things inside the vehicle can explode during collisions.

That is news to me.

I had a vehicle welding rig I installed right behind the driver’s seat detonate the other day when I crashed into a wall.

Real cool. Prompted a long quest to salvage the stuff to build a makeshift welder -> vehicle welding rig on the spot.

[EkarusRyndren]

So after having a difficult time keeping the 40-odd corpses worth of human flesh not-rotten before I can make it into food… Why not have some Vehicle-Refrigerators, functional ones… Constant power-draw that keeps it fresh longer?