I disassembled an inactive secubot and it dropped an M&K 5 submachine gun and 9x19mm JHP ammo. It should drop MP5 ammo.
So I guess the question that needs answering is, what are you imagining “MP5 ammo” to be other than what it says it takes in the description of the firearm?
I’m just ‘imagining’ that the ammo that drops with the gun should go into the gun.
The description for the M&K 5 gun in game specifically says MP5 magazine
cartridg is what it takes.
I don’t know (or really care) what an M&K 5 gun is or what MP5 is. Just that at the moment something is clearly messed up.
The gun takes 9x19mm ammo. It says that in the description near the top.
Now, if your complaint is that you lack a magazine, that’s different. But I can easily see a robot-mounted weapon having a different feeding mechanism than magazines (because swapping out magazines is a very human-ergonomics task), so it not dropping a magazine – while possibly vexing – is not necessarily a problem.
Of course, it probably shouldn’t drop a human-usable gun in the first place, so.
I’m not sure I would use the word “clearly” here.
Yeah, OK, you got me. I used the word ‘ammo’ when I meant the word ‘magazine’.
Given that they both show up in the ammo section of my inventory without the word magazine in the name I hope you can see where my confusion came from.
Despite the confusion, the point of this thread is that robots (and also turrets) are dropping two things that can’t be jammed into each other to make one thing.
It does drop a magazine. It drops the wrong magazine.
Well now I"m just confused. It dropped a gun (M&K 5), ammo (9x19 jhp) AND a magazine (unclear, apparently not the MP5 magazine)? What exactly is the magazine it dropped?
edit: Did some json diving. From what I can see killing one of these and disassembling should give 100 JHP max for the kill and the broken secubot that disassembles into:
"components": [ [ [ "ai_module", 1 ] ], [ [ "sensor_module", 1 ] ], [ [ "memory_module", 1 ] ], [ [ "pathfinding_module", 1 ] ], [ [ "identification_module", 1 ] ], [ [ "omni_wheel", 1 ] ], [ [ "copbot_chassis", 1 ] ], [ [ "android_arms", 1 ] ], [ [ "power_supply", 4 ] ], [ [ "solar_cell", 2 ] ], [ [ "hk_mp5", 1 ] ], [ [ "canister_empty", 1 ] ]
It shouldn’t give any magazine at all, which reminds me of what esotericist said:
Of course, it probably shouldn’t drop a human-usable gun in the first place, so.
And I’d have to agree. There’s no reason a robot or turret would have a human operable gun wedged up inside them, that’s a lot of wasted parts and potential failure points. No good manufacturer would build it like that. All you really need to fire a bullet is a slot to hold the bullet, a firing pin to ignite it and a pipe of the correct inner diameter for it to travel down.
I agree it’s frustrating to not get a fully functional weapon and people ITT in this thread aren’t helping by being mildly dismissive, but I don’t think there’s a bug here unless it’s actually dropping a magazine for some reason.
[quote=“Malkeus, post:8, topic:21251”]
ammo (9x19 jhp)[/quote]
Whoops? I thought JHP was the magazine type, like (apparently?) MP5 is a magazine type.
Ugh. Sorry about this whole mess of a thread.
Can I make a plea for more understandable item names here?
This whole thing would have been avoided if magazines said ‘magazine’ in their name, ammunition said ‘ammo’ in their name, and for that matter I would love it if rifles, handguns and submachineguns said ‘rifle / handgun / submachinegun’ in their name. I have no idea what I’m picking up half the time.
Don’t worry about it. It’s easy to get confused if you don’t know guns & ammo. Everything I know about them, I learned here, playing this game and reading peoples comments.
I doubt your idea for name changes will fly tbh, but you CAN examine the items and they will tell you what they are in their stats/description. Soon enough, you’ll learn to recognize the format of each type and you’ll only be examining them for specific info, like what magazines that MP5 will accept or exactly how much armor pierce that ammo has.
Consider it part of the learning curve. Another possibility for you would be adding the ‘Generic guns’ mod to your next world. It will drastically cut down on the varieties of weapon you need to learn about.
Have a good night(morning?).
If you’re playing a mostly vanilla game (as mods that add guns tend to break a bit with this), there is an official mod that replaces all gun types for more generic ones (I think is called “generic guns” or something like this). It will save you a lot of time at the beginning. Later, by examining a weapon you can see which kind of magazines it accepts (in “Compatible magazines”) and which kind of ammo it accepts (in “Type”), so there should not be much confusion on that part.
(whoops. seems I missed the last reply from Malkeus, that put exactly the same suggestion. Set up internal reminder to take my coffee before replying to any post)
As Malkeus says, much of this isn’t going to happen in the main game with regards to firearms or their ammunition. We didn’t pick those names, those are the actual real-world names and terms of these objects. And examining objects is always your best bet for understanding what it is you’re dealing with.
As a side note, magazines in the game generally (and I’m only hedging here with ‘generally’ because I do not have encyclopedic knowledge; i do not know of any exceptions offhand) have the word “magazine” in their item name.
But also, as both Malkeus and Abraham_Limpo mention, we ship the game with a “Generic Guns” mod which you can certainly use if you’re not prepared to contend with the (admittedly extensive) complexity that is real-world munitions and the terminology thereof.
Looking at recipe for this bot it has android arms so it s not crazy for it to weild a human gun
Other robots have gun_module which are describe as system able to opperate human weapons. Of course if the gun modules are actually too silly it could be changed.
That’s a good point I didn’t consider before. I suppose it would be more versatile if it could use anything a human could use. Impractical as hell to engineer and maintain, but versatile. But in that case, we need to ask how it’s getting the bullets into the gun. Some kind of bullet feed that imitates the magazine? Is it swapping magazines and has a system to reload them (picturing something like robocops holster, but for magazines). If it’s the first case, no magazine drop makes sense, but the second would require 2 magazines minimum and maybe some kind of message to let us know it’s swapping magazines (I’d personally use that as a cue to attack).
I can’t imagine either system holding up very well without constant maintenance. Does the robot take time to clean its guns? Do they start to jam if it fires too often? It just seems like a terrible design to me to include all those extraneous moving parts and those parts don’t seem to be included in it’s recipe. This seems like one of those instances where KISS would come into play, miltary loves it’s lowest bid purchasing after all.
edit: I suppose whatever it’s using to feed the gun would be integrated into the arms and/or chassis. And turrets are just gun stands with a camera and AI? I want to be able to swap the guns in that case I’m wavering on my opinions above. KISS approves.
The turrets generally use ‘integral’ versions of the weapons which cannot be wielded or fired by the player. These would presumably use dedicated integral ammo feeds, not magazines.
If the secubot actually has arms and hands as is indicated in its drop profile and is supposed to be wielding and firing a human weapon, then it should pretty much need to do all the usual stuff - manual aim & fire, remove and reload magazines, etc. It could also use pretty much any firearm a human could, assuming its programming understands them.
But in that case most of its ammo should indeed drop in magazines appropriate to the weapon it is wielding.
I’m not convinced the secubots should be wielding firearms.
My previous understanding from prior conversations with Kevin was that stuff like the secubots was essentially a boston dynamics-esque chassis with a turret mounted onto it.
I too believe it was something to that effect. The firearms themselves were fully integrated and a proprietary component of the total robot. Thus it would make absolute sense that whatever the ammunition feeding system is it would be proprietary as well.
I have zero issue, in even the slightest, that we can’t reutilize the magazines .
That’s fine of course, if the secbots are supposed to be using integral weapons then they just need their layout to be shifted over to be more like the turrets. They simply aren’t set up that way right now.