Reload Time and "Reload_one"

[Blaze]

So when using revolvers, I noticed that enemies made several moves whenever I stopped to reload. I took a look at the revolver itself, a S&W 610. Reload time 60.

Yet when I look at the movement cost for that turn; it took me 140 action points to reload a single bullet. My handgun skill is 7; so it should’ve only took around 30 points.

Edit: Reloading an empty gun takes the right amount of time. Afterwards the point cost skyrockets.

[elauminx]

I don’t think it’s a bug… it’s cost of reload/bullet.
(6x30=180 or thereabout). If you want faster reloads don’t use revolver…

Perhaps there is or could be added to the game “revolver magazine” (I’m not that technical in the gunnery lingo) with which one could reload all bullets in one action.

guns suck anywayz-,
eai

[Slax]

Gun movement costs seem to be all over the place. Haven’t done any excessive testing but there’s a lot of wonk and unpredictability.

guns suck anywayz-,

They feel underpowered and a bit silly, that’s for sure.

[Sep]

Yet when I look at the movement cost for that turn…

What do you mean by looking at the movement cost? The item detail screen or are you talking about something else?

[Dominae]

[quote=“elauminx”]guns suck anywayz-,

They feel underpowered and a bit silly, that’s for sure.[/quote]

What, what? I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone state they felt guns were underpowered, usually everyone points out how overpowered they are. Why do you feel that way? Is it use at range? Most arguments about guns are how ridiculously “1-shot-kill” they are at close range, making the vast variety we have in game feel kinda’ moot since everything that isn’t a brute/hulk/jabberwok dies in a single shot or two.

[Mrnocamera]

Perhaps there is or could be added to the game “revolver magazine” (I’m not that technical in the gunnery lingo) with which one could reload all bullets in one action.

I think that would be a speedloader.

[Aluminumfoil]

Mostly confirmed.

There is definitely something strange going on with firearm reload times. I don’t see any difference between reloading an empty weapon and reloading a partly filled weapon, but the reload time is definitely being calculated differently from what the wiki indicates is supposed to happen. This is a factor for magazine-loaded weapons as well as individual cartridges. My rifle (reload 500, with 9 skill -> reload 163) takes around 300 turns worth of seconds (18) to load. My handgun (reload 70, with 12 skill, 0 encumbrance -> reload 25) takes around 200 turns worth of seconds (12) to load. My heavy machinegun (reload 800, 9 skill -> reload 260) takes about 400 turns worth of seconds (24) to reload.

Unfortunately, cataclysm clocks are only accurate to 6 seconds, so it’s hard to measure turns with any accuracy.

A guess: cataclysm is adding 100 turns to every reload action. This would fit the measured times for the machine gun and rifle. The handgun wouldn’t quite fit this, since 125 turns should still clock as 6 seconds most of the time, but it’s close enough that I could potentially buy this explanation.

[i2amroy]

Are you accounting for encumbrance? Hand encumbrance adds to reload times.

Here’s the actual code for reload times:

[code] int ret = 0;

if (is_gun()) {
    it_gun* reloading = dynamic_cast<it_gun*>(type);
    ret = reloading->reload_time;
    if (charges == 0) {
        int spare_mag = has_gunmod("spare_mag");
        if (spare_mag != -1 && contents[spare_mag].charges > 0)
            ret -= int(double(ret) * 0.9);
    }
    double skill_bonus = double(u.skillLevel(reloading->skill_used)) * .075;
    if (skill_bonus > .75)
        skill_bonus = .75;
    ret -= int(double(ret) * skill_bonus);
} else if (is_tool())
    ret = 100 + volume() + (weight() / 113);

if (has_flag("STR_RELOAD"))
    ret -= u.str_cur * 20;
if (ret < 25)
    ret = 25;
ret += u.encumb(bp_hands) * 30;
return ret;[/code]

[Aluminumfoil]

All tests were conducted at 0 hand enc.

[Blaze]

I was wearing fitted light survivor gloves, also 0 total encumbrance.

[Slax]

[quote=“Slax, post:3, topic:5808”][quote=“elauminx”]guns suck anywayz-,

They feel underpowered and a bit silly, that’s for sure.[/quote]

What, what? I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone state they felt guns were underpowered, usually everyone points out how overpowered they are. Why do you feel that way? Is it use at range? Most arguments about guns are how ridiculously “1-shot-kill” they are at close range, making the vast variety we have in game feel kinda’ moot since everything that isn’t a brute/hulk/jabberwok dies in a single shot or two.[/quote]
Barely being able to hit someone from across a street does grind my gears. Ranges overall could do with a big boost.
Scoring easy hits from point blank range makes sense, that’s fine. However, the amount of critical hits granted to you at that range is a bit outrageous. It’s a big topic to cover without writing half a novel but I do think the whole system could do with an overhaul.

Ah well, I’ll elaborate a bit more. Long guns are LONG. Standard rifles, shotguns. Working them at close or really close range can be very tricky, especially in untrained hands. Shooting from the hip would be a viable option in such situations (way lower chance for criticals, faster shots) but aiming would just be unreliable against fidgety and alerted strange zombies and monsters. Handguns and SMGs are much easier to operate at close range but recoil penalties could do with being more severe. Bah, just rambling about obvious things now…

A lot of turn-based games employ some sort of aiming mechanic for guns.

Snap shots.
Aimed shots.
Focused shots.

Metal Gear Zombie (or whatever LazyCat calls it these days) uses a (in my opinion) partially implemented aiming system. Wait for a turn and your character will enter aiming mode. (Cancelled if you move.) Possibly a flat boost to your chance to hit. Such a system could, and probably should, be further developed and balanced. Wait long with a rifle and you’ll get a big boost. Would all depend on what kind of weapon you’re using. A pistol with simple sights would only be able to gain a small, quicker bonus, but you’d definitely be able to score a good hit on a target standing across the street. Stuff like that.

[GlyphGryph]

“waiting to increase your accuracy” is a thing already though. And also off-topic.

[Straume21]

[quote=“elauminx, post:2, topic:5808”]I don’t think it’s a bug… it’s cost of reload/bullet.
(6x30=180 or thereabout). If you want faster reloads don’t use revolver…

Perhaps there is or could be added to the game “revolver magazine” (I’m not that technical in the gunnery lingo) with which one could reload all bullets in one action.

guns suck anywayz-,
eai[/quote]

I believe what you are referencing is sometimes called a “speed reloader.”

Personally, I think this would be a great addition to the game as a mod for revolvers, given that with clip-load pistols you can mod an extra clip to decrease reload time, I don’t think it would be overkill to put it in.