Random Starting Location

Binky · 2014-03-25T19:59:53.000Z

Hey everyone. I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to offer a suggestion and see if it’d be something that might gain some more traction at this stage.

Issue: Currently the player always starts off in the same building with only a slight difference in what is found in the basement. Whilst this allows you to build the basic stuff you need, it’s also quite boring after the first few games as you always just go through the same ritual of checking the basement, breaking the cupboards and benches and making the same old stuff.

Suggestion:
My suggestion is to have you spawn in a random house (or other building I suppose) instead of the starting shelter. Currently I do this on all my games by debugging a teleport inside the nearest house as soon as I start and it always leads to a much more interesting game without the safety of the starting shelter. Sometimes you get lucky and find a well stocked house, and other times you

I’d propose therefore that you start in a random house and have starting shelters removed. However, it’s important that it’s a relatively small village rather and I’m unsure if it’s currently possible to test that before spawning. It might be possible to just create a separate starting village in place of the starting shelter but it definitely needs to be a small one, as otherwise it’s rather difficult. I’d also suggest that the house was boarded up, as that makes things a lot easier.

Issues I foresee:
One of the problems with a randomized start is that you could keep respawning until you find the ‘best’ house for you. This could be broadly helped by having none of the houses you spawn in too overly well kitted out. To be honest though, I don’t think it’s avoidable, and just goes hand in hand with randomized starts.

Too hard to build/do anything without zombies attacking - This is a problem, and I’d suggest that the zombie number was kept low (possibly artificially so) or that they were congregated some way away from the house to allow for moderate construction. I’m unsure of the best way to balance this, but I’ve always managed fine even in moderately busy cities as long as I’m on the outskirts.

I am suggesting this as an option, not the default, but I do think it could take over from it if a good enough balance was found with the starting village.

Rivet · 2014-03-25T20:12:22.000Z

You’re preaching to the choir.

This has been discussed before, and everyone wants it; we just need to get it coded and integrated into the game.

JimQuaid · 2014-03-25T20:12:39.000Z

IIRC the plan was to eventually have the starting locations tied to the professions? Firefighters start in Firestations office workers in offices and so on.
But even if that were implemented I wouldn’t remove the shelters. They’re a good starting point for professions/backgrounds without an appropriate spawn location.
A stopover solution (maybe) until the other stuff is worked out would be to make “Random Spawn” a world option.

KA101 · 2014-03-25T20:51:07.000Z

The last serious attempt at it allowed for starting in more-or-less random houses, or the evac shelter. Had some glitches but with expansion would be reasonable.

(Shelter’s not a bad start, though I agree that it doesn’t work well for all professions and can get boring.)

Binky · 2014-03-25T21:04:19.000Z

Would it be easier to make the current shelter a random house and then just spawn a few other houses near it? That seems as though it’d be easier, but I must confess I have no idea how the map stuff really works.

The shelter works well as a very functional starting point, but in my opinion makes the early game a bit too repetitive, especially as you’re always a long way away from main buildings.

A random house anywhere would be a nice option (or a barricaded house if they are distinct) if nothing else though, and would be a lot better than the surrounded start option in my opinion.

Dzlan · 2014-03-25T22:41:35.000Z

Mind, starting in a house in the middle of a large city doesn’t sound too bad. I mean, you can always just run into the forest and come back when things have calmed down, right?
And rather then spawning in safety, spawning in a situation where you must get to safety would be nice. : )
Anyway, like this idea, a lot. Always have.

Binky · 2014-03-25T23:13:23.000Z

[quote=“Dzlan, post:6, topic:5596”]Mind, starting in a house in the middle of a large city doesn’t sound too bad. I mean, you can always just run into the forest and come back when things have calmed down, right?
And rather then spawning in safety, spawning in a situation where you must get to safety would be nice. : )
Anyway, like this idea, a lot. Always have.[/quote]

It’s not too bad, but I’m sure newer players would struggle a lot with it. You also tend to get a lot of random deaths with that as well, as you walk outside and suddenly get mobbed by 15 zombies which you had no way of knowing about.

I feel there is need for some sort of selective placement in quieter villages, but I don’t think we need to make them completely danger-free, because as you say, you can always run off from most threats if you need too, especially if you are next to wilderness.

PoeSalesman · 2014-03-25T23:30:59.000Z

[quote=“Dzlan, post:6, topic:5596”]Mind, starting in a house in the middle of a large city doesn’t sound too bad. I mean, you can always just run into the forest and come back when things have calmed down, right?
And rather then spawning in safety, spawning in a situation where you must get to safety would be nice. : )
Anyway, like this idea, a lot. Always have.[/quote]
That could end up fair, or you could spawn next to a pack of zombie dogs you plain can’t run from and can’t hit. In general though I like the idea well enough, though I don’t think the evac shelter should be removed entirely. Either it’s one of many random possibilities in addition to a house basement or somewhere else you’d wait out a cataclysm (since the game seems to rely on the idea of you hiding away for a few days waiting for things to settle at the moment) or based on the start you select.

KA101 · 2014-03-26T00:10:31.000Z

[quote=“PoeSalesman, post:8, topic:5596”][quote=“Dzlan, post:6, topic:5596”]Mind, starting in a house in the middle of a large city doesn’t sound too bad. I mean, you can always just run into the forest and come back when things have calmed down, right?
And rather then spawning in safety, spawning in a situation where you must get to safety would be nice. : )
Anyway, like this idea, a lot. Always have.[/quote]
That could end up fair, or you could spawn next to a pack of zombie dogs you plain can’t run from and can’t hit. In general though I like the idea well enough, though I don’t think the evac shelter should be removed entirely. Either it’s one of many random possibilities in addition to a house basement or somewhere else you’d wait out a cataclysm (since the game seems to rely on the idea of you hiding away for a few days waiting for things to settle at the moment) or based on the start you select.[/quote]

Another issue is the horde mechanic: once they’re worked out, starting around or in their spawn area may be very painful. So I’d recommend that not be the default.

And yeah, DDA starts 5 days after the Cataclysm, so you need to be in a place where you could believably have been for a few days. (IIRC the Cata took place on a Saturday, and you start on Thursday: calendar.cpp)

Dzlan · 2014-03-26T00:30:42.000Z

Ah okay. Only 5 days.
I guess being in a house with closed curtains is believable.
Maybe when this gets implemented if it does. Have a profession called Newbie or something, that spawns the player in an evac shelter?
For those who want to learn the game, and start with the general equipment.
I know this isn’t true for many people out there, but I personally love being forced into difficult scenarios and trying to get out of them or overcome them. Starting the game in the middle of town is a fun example of one such thing. Death is the best part of this game for me.
Although using the debug to teleport into the center of town is a good idea for now. I think I might try that with my next character.

KA101 · 2014-03-26T00:40:41.000Z

[quote=“Dzlan, post:10, topic:5596”]Ah okay. Only 5 days.
I guess being in a house with closed curtains is believable.
Maybe when this gets implemented if it does. Have a profession called Newbie or something, that spawns the player in an evac shelter?
For those who want to learn the game, and start with the general equipment.
I know this isn’t true for many people out there, but I personally love being forced into difficult scenarios and trying to get out of them or overcome them. Starting the game in the middle of town is a fun example of one such thing. Death is the best part of this game for me.
Although using the debug to teleport into the center of town is a good idea for now. I think I might try that with my next character.[/quote]

Closed curtains still raises sound questions, though.

I won’t mock someone for wanting to start at the evac shelter. You wanna die a lot, that’s your decision. That’s why “starting location” would be a separate option: default it to special locations for professions, sure, but make it changeable.

Binky · 2014-03-26T00:42:33.000Z

PoeSalesman:

That could end up fair, or you could spawn next to a pack of zombie dogs you plain can’t run from and can’t hit. In general though I like the idea well enough, though I don’t think the evac shelter should be removed entirely.

Yeah, I just meant not having guaranteed starting shelters everywhere - they’d be fine as a special building somewhere.

I’d also suggest that it’s optional (at least to start with) as I know many players would take issue with it being forced upon you, but I do think it’d give a lot more natural play than starting in the middle of nowhere and doing the same bashing of lockers with rocks and so on.

Being in a boarded up house for 5 days makes sense, you could have been in an out of a bad fever or something if you need further lore justification. Similarly, if you’re in a small village with only 5-10 zombies, you’d probably be ok (with some in their own houses and whatever).

kevin.granade · 2014-03-26T01:36:12.000Z

this is my bad, I apologise. a prototype version of this (optionally spawn you in a random house) was ready to go for 0.A, but I let my perfectionism get out of hand because I wanted some more features with it. Additional features include closed blinds and/or boarded up windows, configurable distance from a town center, starting in various shops, etc.
I think I’ll put out a minimal version soon that just lets you chose a building to spawn in, and worry about the other stuff later.

Dzlan · 2014-03-26T06:21:54.000Z

[quote=“KA101, post:11, topic:5596”]Closed curtains still raises sound questions, though.

I won’t mock someone for wanting to start at the evac shelter. You wanna die a lot, that’s your decision. That’s why “starting location” would be a separate option: default it to special locations for professions, sure, but make it changeable.[/quote]

Thats fine. Dieing a lot as a “separate option” is just as good. : )
This is gunnnnaaaa be awesome.

Sean_Mirrsen · 2014-03-26T06:33:57.000Z

Why not just start you out in a random house’s basement? I think that’s an entirely plausible way to survive five days.

KA101 · 2014-03-26T06:37:56.000Z

Sean Mirrsen:

Why not just start you out in a random house’s basement? I think that’s an entirely plausible way to survive five days.

Depending on the profession, it could be. In general, though, if you’re going to change it an option would likely be better, if for no other reason than some folks prefer to avoid cities altogether.

Sean_Mirrsen · 2014-03-26T06:59:07.000Z

Hmm, something like “enable custom starting locations”, and let profession define where you start?

Binky · 2014-03-26T09:51:12.000Z

I think random is fine, making it by profession would include a heck of a lot of work, and although it would be nice in some cases, I think a random start adds more excitement in most.

If there is a minimal version then please push it if available!!

vache · 2014-03-26T13:20:49.000Z

Making it by profession wouldn’t make sense for a lot of professions. Is your football player going to be expected to have been holed up in a gym for the past 5 days? Your handyman in a hardware store? That said, it would be pretty neat to have stuff like the survivalist profession starting in a tent in the woods, but I think for the (large) majority of professions, the only starting locations that really make sense are homes, basements, and shelters. Starting in the middle of a FEMA camp could be the new “black road” option.

Binky · 2014-03-26T13:42:57.000Z

vache:

Making it by profession wouldn’t make sense for a lot of professions. Is your football player going to be expected to have been holed up in a gym for the past 5 days? Your handyman in a hardware store? That said, it would be pretty neat to have stuff like the survivalist profession starting in a tent in the woods, but I think for the (large) majority of professions, the only starting locations that really make sense are homes, basements, and shelters. Starting in the middle of a FEMA camp could be the new “black road” option.

Agreed, houses and basements are the only thing that make much sense, other than a very few professions, and the amount of coding that would probably need to go into that would be huge for the payout, especially considering that most wouldn’t be even remotely balanced.

I feel making sure that the house is boarded up would be the only criteria that I can see being important (to stop you getting instantly spotted for instance) but making sure you’re right on the edge or in a small city would also be very useful/fairer.