Railroad tracks

[Binky]

Agreed, 3 gauge seems right. Most trains where I am have two seats either side and a ‘one tile’ walkway, so it make sense from that point of view as well.

[Wuzzy]

Okay, the railroads have a gauge of 3 then. I pushed the changes to my GitHub repository.

This is how it looks like:

(The “1” is a signal.)

I used the additional space to add more rubble. This makes railroad tracks more interesting; maybe even more realistic? I don’t know. But it should really slow people down when crossing a railroad—unless they find a street.

I don’t know if I should update my pull request or if I should wait until it gets merged (hopefully), then file another pull request. (Edit: Never mind: Turns out GitHub handles this automagically :-)))

[Binky]

I’d update your pull request. It’s probably worth getting it into the best form possible before it gets merged, and I feel the three gauge tracks should definitely be standard. Really, you just don’t want people creating loads of stuff for a 5 gauge if it’s going to end up a 3 gauge.

[Sean_Mirrsen]

[quote=“Wuzzy, post:22, topic:5387”]Okay, the railroads have a gauge of 3 then. I pushed the changes to my GitHub repository.

This is how it looks like:
[/quote]Please fix the 90-degree turn track. If traincars will ever, in the future, be capable of moving along those, they need to be more curved, like real tracks.

^like the two I highlighted, for instance.

[StopSignal]

Keep going with this, it’s just fantastic, realistic, everythingistic.

[Wuzzy]

@Sean Mirrsen: Maybe. But I am not sure if I really want to do this. I don’t consider it that important. Also, I think it is still a long way to train vehicles, so this can wait.
@Binky: GItHub updated the pull request automatically for me after I pushed to my branch.

I made a small update to the curves, however. I designed them in such a way that you have to cross at least two non-ground tiles (railroad tie or rubble) from the outside in order to reach the rail. I’ll push this soon. This makes the railroads a bit more regular. To cross a normal 2-way railroad, you now definitely would have to walk at least over 4 pieces of rubble—unless you find a road or a bridge of course ;-).

Oh, and thanks to you all for your support.

[detahramet]

3-gauge is definately a good idea

[Belteshazzar]

This looks really good, perhaps add some subway track for underground too?

[vache]

Now let’s get some industrial zone/factories/warehouses/train stations in there. I imagine it’s going to get a little more complicated when you take into account the high density areas for that, with things like several parallel rails and the switches between them:
[tt]
|||||
|||||
||/|
|/ |
| |
[/tt]
Patterns like that would be really hard for the game to generate without it trying to mash them all into a big glob. Might have to include extra checks to see if a factory is nearby and then apply a set piece of rails or one of a variety of set pieces.

[AseaHeru]

Comment: Standard Gage for railways is 4ft 8.5in. The width of a normal road lane is between 9ft and 15ft. Interstates in America have 12ft lanes. The normal width for the entire assembly of roadbed and track is about 16ft. The ties meanwhile are about 9ft long, and 9in wide.
Now, the typical width of north American train cars is about 10ft.

All this means that if half a road in cata is 9 tiles, and that is 12 ft, than the tracks are about 6 tiles wide (total) and the roadbed is about 21 tiles…
Ah… thats a tad big…

Shall we say that they are narrow gauge? mane railways had a gauge of 30in… so that is (unless I really cocked up) a track width (not roadbed) of only three tiles (aprox)…

[Wuzzy]

You could also say roads are too broad. Not kidding, even the median strip is two tiles broad. So I do not think the C:DDA road is a good thing to compare to.

I’ll stick to the 3-tile gauge, the road argument is too weak in my eyes. I won’t call it “narrow gauge”, I just call it the “3-tile gauge”.

Oh, on GitHub they told me the railroad tracks are not going to be merged until someone puts them into the map generator. Sorry, the map generator is a bit over my head for me now.
Here is the discussion: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/6925

[AseaHeru]

I was going to compare them with car widths but I couldn’t find any dimensions for them. Go internet!

[dovla]

I like, except for right angle turns. I’d limit bends to 45 angle at most, which also might be easier to draw. Not because of future vehicles, it just looks wrong for tracks to bend like that.

[Wuzzy]

Oh, hi again.

This proposal is currently stuck.

I know the current curves do not look very pretty. I am not updating those anytime soon because I’m lazy. But I think this is not really important. I may tackle it if the bigger problem has been solved.

The bigger problem where this is stuck is the question on how to put all the rail tiles onto the map. I have no real clue.

Someone suggested it could be done similar like the subway or even the river but I think this is non-sense. If railroads lead anywhere at least, then cities, of course. But I can’t just place a station into a city and connect dots. Problem #1 would be houses that are aligned to a railroad, because the railroad just blindly went over an ordinary road. Problem #2 would be the rail can possibly replace roads and therefore break the entire road network of the city. :-/ And there are probably other issues with that as well.
I have no real plan how to lay those railroads or how to make them “grow”.

Another question is: Where should railroad stations be placed? Yes, I also plan train stations. It could be just a dummy overmap tile at the beginning, and the railroad is forced to go along those tiles. Certainly railroad stations belong to cities. But I think they also should occasionally stop somewhere else, for flavor reasons. The question is where exactly and how?

That’s why you haven’t heard from this for some time now.

[vache]

It should be possible to ensure that you’re not stomping over a road and just moving perpendicular/parallel to it. Otherwise, I’d imagine you’d probably push a set of points for known railroad connections, then connect them all. Then pick a couple random edge points and throw some connections there, like the way the roads do.

I can take a look at it sometime, but in the meantime, I’d recommend making or mocking up a railroad station, or some kind of factory with a railroad connection.

[AseaHeru]

For railroad stations, mines and labs would probably have some, the hazard waste might have one, farms(?) might do with one if there are enough farms about.

As for the road issue, you could have it so there are street running tracks. There are still some about in New England, just not that many.
Normally it runs down the center of the street in those cases, there arent many dual track street running unless its a double lane road.

If you add in factories, grain silos or airports they might have one aswell.

[system]

Railroad stations are large roundabouts with crane gantries and lotsa tools.

It’s basically a circle you can enter at from and come out in another or the same direction.

[AseaHeru]

Not so with a Terminus, they have a single exit/entrance for the tracks.
But for the most part what he says is true, except for perhaps the runabout thing. Thats mostly yards he is thinking of, I think.

[StopSignal]

Someone suggested it could be done similar like the subway or even the river but I think this is non-sense. If railroads lead anywhere at least, then cities, of course. But I can’t just place a station into a city and connect dots. Problem #1 would be houses that are aligned to a railroad, because the railroad just blindly went over an ordinary road. Problem #2 would be the rail can possibly replace roads and therefore break the entire road network of the city. :-/

I tought you had a map tile that combined street and railroad? It would obligue you to make tinier trains, but i think it’s ok

[kevin.granade]

This is important enough that it will get in eventually, I just can’t say when. You’ve done a very important part of the implementation in laying out the tiles, I can do the mapgen part, but can’t really do the tiles that well, so that would have been a sticking point if I’d tried.